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File 138187702668.jpg - (578.88KB , 960x1280 , P1020868.jpg )
8580 No. 8580 ID: d5e5a4
It's been awhile since I've visited the San Jacinto Monument and the USS Texas out in east Houston.

Met up with Lulzmacher and his gf.
It was a rainy day.

sorry SG, I thought you were out hiking
74 posts omitted. Last 50 shown. Expand all images
>> No. 8656 ID: 263d6c
File 138197542390.jpg - (283.26KB , 1600x1042 , US submarine USS Texas (SSN-775) a Virginia-class .jpg )
8656
A Virginia-class SSN costs around 1.775 billion dollars in 2007.
$2,707.1m per unit (FY2014) and $50 million per unit (annual operating cost).
The USS Texas went in for a 20-month maintenance overhaul in 2012 for nearly 30 million dollars.
http://www.navsea.navy.mil/NewsView.aspx?nw=NewsWires&id=74
http://www.navsea.navy.mil/NewsView.aspx?nw=NewsWires&id=58
>> No. 8657 ID: ef6ae2
File 138197867248.jpg - (80.10KB , 599x358 , 36536363779.jpg )
8657
>40 million USD to fix the USS Texas?
>Scrap it.
>> No. 8658 ID: 263d6c
File 138198389524.jpg - (1.68MB , 2100x1500 , US USS Towers (DDG-9) Charles F_ Adams-class guide.jpg )
8658
>>9137
OK, you keep that money mausoleum afloat.
It is an obsolete weapon that has no realistic or significantly useful purpose.
Aside from testing new weapons on it.

Pacific Ocean (October 9, 2002) -- The decommissioned ship USS Towers (DDG-9), an old Charles F. Adams-class destroyer, slowly sinks in the Pacific Ocean after being used as a target hulk for live-fire sinking exercises (SINKEX). Using decommissioned ships for live-fire operations gives ships’ crews the experience of launching operational weapons and honing their war-fighting skills. The decommissioned ships are first made environmentally safe prior to towing and sinking in safe waters off prospective coastlines. Ultimately, the Towers will serve as a man-made reef for marine life in the area.
>> No. 8659 ID: 263d6c
File 138198397064.jpg - (1.26MB , 1899x1495 , US WW2 battleship USS California (BB-44) sinking a.jpg )
8659
The battleship USS California (BB-44) sinking alongside Ford Island, Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, 7 December 1941.
>> No. 8660 ID: 263d6c
File 13819840421.jpg - (2.32MB , 3000x2408 , US WW2 battleship USS Arizona sinking in the attac.jpg )
8660
Battleship USS Arizona sinking in the attack on Pearl Harbor.
>> No. 8661 ID: 7d9fe3
>>9137
what purpose does it serve?
>> No. 8662 ID: f3095e
>>9133
The Texas receives no federal funding.

>>9142
What purpose does a museum serve, or what purpose does any other preserved ship serve. Shit, let's just scrap the USS constitution while were at it because "its an outdated weapons design" I mean come on people.
>> No. 8663 ID: d5e5a4
>>9132
>>9133

just remember, one day your hardware will become obsolete too...
>> No. 8664 ID: 993a52
File 138205878868.jpg - (618.07KB , 2592x1944 , 2013-10-12 14_35_32.jpg )
8664
http://imgur.com/a/rW4iZ

should I dump them? Question mark?

I also found this at the local Greek Burger Joint.
>> No. 8665 ID: 263d6c
File 138206053176.jpg - (155.36KB , 1084x720 , US WW1 battleship USS Texas & the obelisk of t.jpg )
8665
>>9143
I did not mention the Federal budget, guessing this battleship museum was funded mostly by the government of Texas.

I had visited the USS Missouri around 1981 or so when she was a battleship museum. Later, the Reagan administration had the four Iowa-class battleships overhauled, modernized, and put to sea as warships in 1984 as part of the 600-ship Navy plan. Big Mo fired some Tomahawk cruise missiles at Iraq in the 1991 Gulf War (something nearly any US frigate or destroyer could do) and actually bombarded the Iraqi shore defenses with her 16 inch guns (something pretty much only a big gun battleship can do as the 3-inch and 5-inch guns of the frigates and destroyers pale in insignificance in this task). But the US Navy just did could not justify the continuing operating expenses of the battleships. One factory made the 16-inch shells and that factory closed down and the battleships required a crew of 1,851 squids where an Oliver Hazard Perry class frigate requires only 176 and the more modern littoral combat ships require less than 75. So when the cuts were called after the Soviet Union called it quits, the battleships were again struck from the lists and mothballed as they are expensive weapons that are obsolete anachronisms in a modern navy. The heyday of the battleship was in 1916 at Jutland where the belligerents were shy to risk their expensive symbols of national pride in a pitched battle. The Japanese proved in 1941 that the aircraft carrier was the decisive killing arm of the fleet.

The few battleships in slips as museums fight a losing battle against leaks and the elements. I see little problem in scrapping such ships that become too expensive to maintain as museums.

- The museum ship USS Texas (BB-35), built in 1914, is in the foreground. She is the last of the type of battleships built during that period. Across the field is the San Jacinto Monument, marking the site of the battle where the residents of Texas won their independence from the government of Mexico in 1836.
>> No. 8666 ID: 263d6c
File 138206241436.jpg - (835.56KB , 3000x2000 , ship USS Constitution sails under her own power in.jpg )
8666
>>9143
The USS Constitution emerged from a three-year repair period in November 2010. During this time the entire spar deck was stripped down to the support beams, and the decking overhead was replaced to restore its original curvature, allowing water to drain overboard and not remain standing on the deck. In addition to decking repairs, 50 hull planks and the main hatch were repaired or replaced. The restoration continued the focus toward keeping her appearance of 1812 by replacing her upper sides so that she now resembles what she looked like after her triumph over HMS Guerriere, when she gained her nickname "Old Ironsides". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution

The USS Constitution is a 44-gun frigate, launched in 1797, and became famous for her actions during the War of 1812 against Great Britain, when she captured numerous merchant ships and defeated five British warships: HMS Guerriere, Java, Pictou, Cyane and Levant. Used for training and ceremonial duties (still being a fully commissioned warship) as well as a museum where she receives half a million visitors per year. Once a year, she will sail (or be towed) around Boston Harbor on Independence Day.

There is no question of scrapping since the USS Constitution is still a commissioned warship.

- The USS Constitution, the world’s oldest commissioned warship, sails under her own power in Charlestown, Mass., Aug. 19, 2012. This was the second time in 131 years the ship sailed without assistance. The exercise commemorates the 200th anniversary of the Constitution’s victory over the British frigate Guerriere during the War of 1812.
>> No. 8667 ID: 263d6c
File 138206254852.jpg - (511.09KB , 1442x1358 , ship USS Constitution under sail, 19 August 2012.jpg )
8667
>> No. 8668 ID: 263d6c
File 138206298762.jpg - (1.55MB , 3264x2448 , ship USS Constitution cannon 1.jpg )
8668
But the USS Constitution's usefulness as a warship has been questioned.

Eh, she probably brings in good money as a museum and a focus for tourism.
>> No. 8669 ID: 263d6c
File 138206311912.jpg - (1.39MB , 3264x2448 , ship USS Constitution cannon 2.jpg )
8669
>> No. 8670 ID: 7d9fe3
>>9143
The constitution has a claim to fame as one of our six original warships.

The texas does not.
>> No. 8671 ID: f3095e
>>9155

The Texas is the last existing pre-dreadnought battleship on earth. Not to mention its combat record in two World Wars, while it may not have the historical cache of the Constitution, it in effect is the last link to an entire era of ships on earth.

I do note that at this point it would be nearly impossible to sell if for scrap, as it is not seaworthy in the least to even be towed to a scrapper. It has essentially no real value beyond historical and cultural value.

>>9150
The Texas is funded by partially state money, and partially donations.
>> No. 8672 ID: 263d6c
File 138214609144.jpg - (1.07MB , 2272x1704 , French Martel TV-guided anti-ship missile & Ar.jpg )
8672
As stated above, anti-ship missiles and other such weapons could be tested on the battleship Texas. But that would damage the whole docking slip the battleship is attached to. And the Texas would make a poor target as she does not imitate other contemporary warships very well (too much armor). Would be difficult to break the Texas into pieces to melt down for useful purposes. And it would be wasteful to lavish great sums of taxpayer's money keeping the Texas afloat as a museum. If private donations can do it, fine. Better to use that money making cleaner oil refineries and cleaning up polluted refineries in the region (don't live anywhere near those things; the cancer rates are through the roof).

- A Martel TV-guided anti-ship missile photographed at RAF Elvington on 18 of August 2007. In the background is a captured Argentine Air Force Mirage jet fighter.
>> No. 8673 ID: 263d6c
File 138214621659.jpg - (398.95KB , 1800x1372 , ship USS Texas (BB-35) in 1914.jpg )
8673
USS Texas (BB-35) in 1914.
>> No. 8674 ID: 263d6c
File 138214625320.jpg - (45.55KB , 454x614 , ship USS Texas crow's nest gun.jpg )
8674
USS Texas crow's nest gun.
Hell of a sniper.
>> No. 8675 ID: 263d6c
File 138214667393.jpg - (836.32KB , 2500x2030 , ship USS Texas tampion of 12-inch gun w Spanish Wa.jpg )
8675
USS Texas tampion of one of her 12-inch guns, adorned with Spanish-American War battles, ca 1900.

This is probably on the first USS Texas, a second-class battleship built by the United States in the early 1890s, the first American battleship commissioned. After the Spanish-American War, the USS Texas was renamed San Marcos in 1911 to allow her name to be used by a new battleship. She became a target ship that same year and was sunk in shallow water in Chesapeake Bay. She was used as a gunnery target through World War II and was finally demolished in 1959 because her remains were considered a navigational hazard.

They weren't nostalgic about old and obsolete warships, back then. When they outlive their use, blow them apart in gunnery practice of new ships and crew.
>> No. 8676 ID: 263d6c
File 138214684229.jpg - (132.21KB , 1280x934 , ship USS Texas second-class battleship 1892-1911.jpg )
8676
The first USS Texas.
>> No. 8677 ID: ef6ae2
File 13821576121.png - (265.79KB , 500x354 , 1370373650247.png )
8677
>>9160
>As stated above, anti-ship missiles and other such weapons could be tested on the battleship Texas.

Yeah sure, and why don't we just test JDAMs on the Smithsonian. Eat a dick dude.
>> No. 8678 ID: f22e61
The reason it causes so many headaches and costs so much money is because its still floating. End game of preservation efforts is to dry dock and set it permanently. But I think that was gonna cost $70 million. It serves no practical purpose, however you don't judge pieces of history by their practical worth.

If these were used as target practice in the 1940s, I would understand, but it's 2013, we still have them, and their worth is now in their historical value. I think it's very valuable for kids 50 years from now to be able to visit the USS Texas/Alabama/Iowa/Wisconsin/New Jersey/Missouri and actually explore the ship. I don't want WWII to be some dry blurb in a textbook, I want them to see giant fucking gun platforms and grasp that thousands of men worked together to kill or be killed. That we felt it necessary to employ these grandiose weapons to kill the shit out of 'the axis' for trying to take over the world. That humans are capable of terrifying resolve ranging from industrial genocide to flash-cooking a stubborn enemy. Its' value is no longer in being the most capable ship of war, but rather its place as a physical manifestation of human nature and philosophy. I think $70 million is a small price to pay to help teach those lessons to future generations.
>> No. 8679 ID: 963c4b
File 138227836168.jpg - (390.04KB , 1536x1024 , Japan battleship Mikasa pre-dreadnought 1902-1923 .jpg )
8679
>>9167
You can judge pieces of history by their practical worth when they are going to cost 70 million dollars to maintain. You know what nice practical things the state of Texas can BUY with 70 million dollars? Or spend it maintaining a 100-year-old battleship that hardly anyone gives a shit about. The USS Constitution is significant, the USS Missouri is significant, the Smithsonian Museum is significant, all deserving expense maintaining them as museums and important objects of history. The USS Texas (BB-35) does not have significant claims to fame aside from being the only remaining dreadnought battleship, though she is not the oldest surviving battleship; the Japanese Mikasa, a pre-dreadnought battleship ordered in 1898, is older than the USS Texas.

- Japanese Mikasa pre-dreadnought (1902-1923) with a statue of Admiral Togo. Togo used his flagship, the Mikasa, to lead his fleet triumphantly against the Russian fleet in the battle of the Tsushima Straights during the Russo-Japanese War. This victory paved the way for Japan to exert herself as an international naval power, even (insanely) daring to fight the United Kingdom and the United States. Perfect example where your pride gets you to write checks your ass cannot cash.
>> No. 8680 ID: 963c4b
File 138227841591.jpg - (833.55KB , 3872x2592 , Japan battleship Mikasa pre-dreadnought 1902-1923 .jpg )
8680
>> No. 8681 ID: 963c4b
File 138227863960.jpg - (313.41KB , 1600x1065 , Japan battleship Mikasa pre-dreadnought 1902-1923 .jpg )
8681
At least the Japanese had the foresight to cement their battleship museum to the dock and not worry about leaks.
>> No. 8682 ID: 963c4b
File 138227871419.jpg - (535.91KB , 2805x1692 , Japan battleship Mikasa pre-dreadnought in 1905.jpg )
8682
Japanese Mikasa pre-dreadnought battleship in 1905.
>> No. 8683 ID: 963c4b
File 138227891242.jpg - (302.19KB , 1400x900 , Japan battleship Mikasa, flagship of Admiral Togo .jpg )
8683
Mikasa, flagship of Admiral Togo at Tsushima.
>> No. 8684 ID: 963c4b
File 138227935624.jpg - (182.25KB , 1200x1600 , Japan battleship Mikasa Admiral Togo beer 1.jpg )
8684
Admiral Togo beer!
>> No. 8685 ID: 963c4b
File 138227986656.jpg - (727.18KB , 1200x800 , US WW1 battleship USS Texas (BB-35) 3.jpg )
8685
>>9172
But I guess cementing the Texas to the dock would spoil her boast as being the oldest battleship AFLOAT.

But paying all that money to fix the leaks to keep her afloat seems wasteful and excessive to me.
>> No. 8686 ID: 263d6c
File 138229564948.jpg - (297.61KB , 1800x1350 , Japan P Admiral Marquis Togo Heihachiro (1848-1934.jpg )
8686
>>9175
Japanese Admiral Marquis Togo Heihachiro (1848-1934) Tsushima War Beer.

How many brands of Admiral Togo beer do the weird-ass Japs have, anyway?
>> No. 8687 ID: 263d6c
File 138229572958.jpg - (287.14KB , 1493x1120 , Japan P Admiral Togo drink and Mr_ Naval Forces Cu.jpg )
8687
Admiral Togo drink and Mr. Naval Forces Curry.
>> No. 8688 ID: abb075
>>9179
Jesus Christ I've been in the country for a month and already I wish they'd shut the fuck about curry.

And I love curry.
>> No. 8689 ID: 263d6c
File 138371137292.jpg - (1.69MB , 3008x2000 , Japanese style curry rice 1.jpg )
8689
>>9248
The Japanese people are ga-ga over curry, as evidenced by so many references to curry in Japanese popular media and cartoons. But are there many Indian restaurants in Japan? Like some of the best Indian restaurants (outside of India) are in England.

Curry is one of the most popular dishes in Japan. It is commonly served in three main forms: curry rice (カレーライス karē raisu?), karē udon (thick noodles) and karē-pan. Curry rice is most commonly referred to simply as 'curry' (カレー karē?).

A wide variety of vegetables and meats are used to make Japanese curry. The basic vegetables are onions, carrots, and potatoes. For the meat, beef, pork, and chicken are the most popular. Katsu-karē is a breaded deep-fried pork cutlet with curry sauce.

Curry was introduced to Japan during the Meiji era (1868–1912) by the British, at a time when India was under their administration. The dish became popular and available for purchase in supermarkets and restaurants in the late 1960s. It has been adapted since its introduction to Japan, and is so widely consumed that it can be called a national dish. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_curry

- Japanese style curry rice.
>> No. 8690 ID: 263d6c
File 13837116612.jpg - (894.24KB , 1600x1200 , Japanese curry bread - kare-pan 1.jpg )
8690
Karē-pan (curry bread)
>> No. 8691 ID: 263d6c
File 138371179392.jpg - (1.57MB , 4000x3000 , Japanese curry Champion Curry Shiroishi takeout.jpg )
8691
Champion Curry Shiroishi takeout
>> No. 8692 ID: 263d6c
File 138371247579.jpg - (2.00MB , 3648x2736 , Japanese curry rice mabo-curry.jpg )
8692
Mabo-curry
>> No. 8693 ID: 263d6c
File 138371279690.jpg - (811.38KB , 4288x2848 , Japanese curry soup 1.jpg )
8693
curry soup
>> No. 8694 ID: 263d6c
File 138371282174.jpg - (668.85KB , 1280x853 , Japanese curry soup 2.jpg )
8694
>> No. 8695 ID: 263d6c
File 138371299672.jpg - (2.12MB , 3648x2736 , Japanese Toyohashi Curry Udon at Mikawa no Sato.jpg )
8695
Toyohashi Curry Udon at Mikawa no Sato
>> No. 8696 ID: 263d6c
File 138371312267.jpg - (2.63MB , 3264x2448 , Japanese curry udon and higawari donburi 1.jpg )
8696
Curry udon and higawari donburi by shrk in Suita, Osaka.
>> No. 8697 ID: 263d6c
File 138371320553.jpg - (632.10KB , 1200x1600 , Japanese curry udon 1.jpg )
8697
>> No. 8698 ID: 1aaaf4
The us wastes more money in one hour than it would cost to fix this piece of history. Fix it.cut congressional payrolls 40m and fix it.
>> No. 8699 ID: 2ae388
File 140422941126.jpg - (329.66KB , 1633x900 , pipeline 1.jpg )
8699
>>10793
Yeah, that's not going to happen.
Fix that old hunk of garbage for 40 million dollars?
Or fix it right for 70 million dollars?

Or scrap it. Melt it down and refurbish some bridges with it. Make water pipelines with it connected to desalination plants or deep water wells to fight the terrible droughts in Texas. Something USEFUL. Something other than cheap nostalgia over something few people care about.

If the Navy took the USS America out to sea and blew her the hell up when she became obsolete, then why spare the Texas?

Maybe I am the one out of line and out of step, but 40 to 70 million bucks is a wildly outrageous sum for maintaining an old dreadnought museum ship.
>> No. 8700 ID: ce0570
I'm all for saving these ships, I'm from mass and we have more than our share of naval museums around here. We obviously have the Constitution, plus Battleship Cove (worlds largest collection of WW2 era ships), as well as the USS Salem, and I even think there's a couple more that I'm forgetting.

The difference to me is that these places are all well maintained and kept. Whereas the Texas is just kind of languishing in limbo while everyone argues over whether or not to invest in it. By the time anyone agrees on it, the Texas is gonna look like the Arizona.

At one time or another in my life, all these ships in Mass have been threatened, and then saved through public campaigns, such as penny drives. All they have to do around here is alert the public to the fact that these ships need work, and the money just pours in. So its really sad to me that the people of Texas apparently don't give enough of shit to help raise the money need to preserve the USS Texas. In the end unfortunately it all just comes down to public interest, and it doesn't appear there's enough to save the Texas.
>> No. 8701 ID: 388296
>>9086

I see what you did there, and I "lulz"-ed.
>> No. 8702 ID: 388296
>>9172

Wait, so if they break the cement encasing her, which protected her thus far against the ruination of time/weather, Mikasa could become a floating museum ship too???
>> No. 8703 ID: 2ae388
File 140428985669.jpg - (147.79KB , 990x743 , ship derelict American Star (SS America) Fuerteven.jpg )
8703
>>10797
Yeah, but they are not going to do anything that retarded.
If you intend to keep a museum ship for more than a few years, you should ground her on a foundation where leaks will not matter.

- The American Star (SS America) off Fuerteventura, Canary Islands.
Not to be confused with the aircraft carrier USS America, blown up in the Atlantic after serving as a weapons target.
>> No. 8704 ID: 2ae388
File 140429091396.jpg - (474.01KB , 1920x1280 , US WW2 carrier USS Wasp (CV-7) sinking in 1942.jpg )
8704
The sinking of the Wasp happened in 1942 on 15 September. 6 Type 95 torpedoes were fired at the Wasp by the Japanese submarine I-19 as the Wasp was performing escort duties along with the carrier USS Hornet and the battleship USS North Carolina and their escorts. The Wasp manuevered and avoided three of them, but three hit. One of the three that missed hit the USS O'Brien, another hit the North Carolins.

Of those that hit the Wasp, one broached and came out of the water and actually struck her above the waterline, the other two below and in the vicinity of some of her magazines and gasoline storage at 14:45 in the afternoon.

Within 50 minutes the order to abandon ship was given as all fire fighting equipment that was left was proving ineffetive because of so many secondary explosions from magazines, ordinance and gas bunkers. I took almost an hour to abandon the vessel which was completed at just after 16:00 hours.

Although fires continued, the Wasp stayed afloat into the night and was showing no signs of sinking.

Finally, at 21:00 hours, over 6 hours after being hit, the Admiral in charge ordered a destroyer, the USS Lansdowne, to sink her. Three more torpedoes were put into her just after 21:00 hours after which she sank. 193 men were killed in the attack, 1,946 were saved. It took a lot to sink a US carrier even in World War II. http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/navy/plan-type-035-039-091-092-submarine-thread-106-3746.html
>> No. 8705 ID: 2ae388
File 140429102573.jpg - (2.11MB , 2586x1796 , US carrier USS America (CV-66) Kitty Hawk-class su.jpg )
8705
Now it is much harder. During the SINKEX for the USS America, the US Navy poured fire into her, from gun fire, to Harpoon missiles, to almost every type of ordinance they had. The actual amount is classified, but sailors do give hints and they indicate that they were all amazed. In the end, explosive ordinance specialists had to rig and detonate demolition explosive devices on her to put her down.

- USS America (CV-66) Kitty Hawk-class supercarrier in 1983.
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