>>109304
RIP Buffalo Gun Center. I handled your gun but ended up buying the 1895 Trapper next to it.

Kalashnikov USA KP9 and Zenith MP5

>>109331
Well, good thing you did not buy it as you would have nowhere to shoot it.
Wait... can't you go out and shoot the prairie dogs or some place in the wilderness to shoot targets?

Here's an older thread of too poor to have guns:
http://www.operatorchan.org/k/res/108123.html

- Swiss SIG P210 (Pistole 49 Armee) in 9x19mm, ca. 1966.

Nice service pistol.
Ridiculously expensive.
2400 to 9700 Euros at
https://edelweissarms.com/handguns/?_bc_fsnf=1&Model=P210

>>109332

Sure if you wanted to be logical about it.

>>109332
> Sig 210

The new production ones from Sig are ridiculously well made. I put a thick grease on the slide rails and it slowed the action down. I mentioned it on reddit and a guy who works / worked at Sig USA said the guys on the production line spend a shitload of time on them. Very tight tolerances.

I only wish they had 10 round extended magazines, and that mine had the original heel release... which then wouldn't work with wish #1...

>>109334
>SIG
>good build quality

2020 is off to a good start.

Fudd tiem

Kimber Adirondack in .308 Win. Obviously there's "better" rounds in a short action like 7mm-08 however I'm starting to desire something with EASY ammo to find locally in a pinch despite being a hand loader.

Load this hoe up with some spicy Swift A Frames or nosler partitions etc and set up with a Leupold 2-7 or so and you have a fucking sweet back country heavy timber rifle.


I have it's big brother, the Subalpine in .280 AI, but that was a freakishly cheap miracle I picked up while working at the gun counter.

Kimber handguns are indeed mostly dildos but their rifles are a fucking dream for the non-custom ultralight hunter. You have to screen them as well though.

The "budget" Montana is the way to go for value, but it's still about a grand.

There.
And here's a page on The 10 Best AR-10s in 2020
https://improb.com/best-ar-10/

And here's a page on “CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?” The Trials and Tribulations of Building an AR-10 Pistol
https://www.kommandoblog.com/2017/05/26/can-you-hear-me-now-the-trials-and-tribulations-of-building-an-ar10-pistol/

DPMS Panther with a Pulsar ND550 night vision digiscope.

Do you want to use these starter guns for target practice? Outdoor plinking? Hunting? Defense?
Many good, inexpensive choices for the various uses.

Awesome thread man!
>mfw completing one of these in my state is a felony

>>109245
Move to Maine.

>>109250
>just move
Real patriots don't run.

>>109256
Cool well have fun burying your guns once your lack off community fails to do anything when gun control happens to your state.

Honestly if all gun owners in the US just moved to 2 or 3 states then those states would forever vote against gun control and have a probable chance of leaving the union later on. But that'll never happen so the minority of pro gun voters will just be continually out voted in every election until there's nothing left of freedom.

>>109318
14 y/o detected.

Obligatory Tree-Post

>>109033
Some guys I spoke with who were in Iraq about 15 years back talked about the damnedest guntrucks, and hillbilly armor HMMWVs ("Mad Max cars") you can imagine. One of them swore that someone in his unit took the turret and 25mm autocannon off a wrecked Marine LAV25 and stuck them on top of a HMMWV but I don't find that very believable. That turret weighs just about as much as a HMMWV all by itself, doesn't it?

And now (supposedly) there are CROWS remote weapons kits that are off-the-shelf and bolt-on for HMMWVs that have laser rangefinders, ballistic computers that can be set up for the common weapons they get set up with (Mark 19s and Ma Deuce, mostly, I was told), and thermal imaging sights for the gunner.

This one's too neat-looking, in my opinion. Needs more spikes and razorwire welded to the front bumper, amirite guise?

>>109270
>That turret weighs just about as much as a HMMWV all by itself, doesn't it?

I could maybe see it if they stripped off most of the armour.

>>109288
Probs did something like this?

>>109270
The bolt on CROWS systems are exactly as you described them. I hadn't heard of any LAV turrets being put onto a Humvee and I doubt that guy was telling you the truth. There isn't enough space to put that on there plus the wiring would be too much for a mechanic team to just drop everything else and get done correctly. I could see putting a 25mm on a Humvee and I've seen M134 miniguns put into Humvee turrets, but a full blown LAV turret?

There were some awesome frankentrucks out there in the early years of the war. Ive seen HEMTT and LMTV guntrucks that were so heavily armored and well built that they proved to be more useful than the purpose built APCs in our AO. For a while, we really thought the Army & Marines we're going to start putting them together in the states but they went with the MRAPs instead. Having played with both, I really preferred the frankentrucks.

At one point in Afghanistan, the local jingletrucks were being ambushed and robbed by insurgents so we decorated a small convoy of LMTVs with painted bedsheets and Christmas lights and started using those to draw out the attackers. They looked convincing at night and worked great.

Tikka Suomi KP/-31 Military Submachine Gun, Class III/NFA C&R Machine Gun, Fully Transferrable, with Magazine Pouch
Estimate Price: $14,000 - $22,500
Developed in the early 1930s, the Suomi KP (Suomi-konepistooli, literally Finnish Machine Pistol) was pictured as a squad-level substitute for a belt-fed light machine gun, being fed with a 71 round drum magazine; the KP and this drum would later be copied by the Soviets, in particular the PPD-40 and PPSh-41 SMGs. In combat, the KP was found to be an effective weapon, though not suited for the Squad Automatic Weapon niche; revised doctrine gave squads a dedicated light machine gun along with two SMG-equipped troopers, which gave units a very high density of close-quarters firepower, particularly while on the move or in dense forest. Among the most famous users was Simo Hayha, aka the White Death, one of Finland's most noted snipers, who reportedly eliminated 200+ enemy troopers with the SMG. Blade front and tangent rear sights, with a screw-mounted casing deflector on the right side of the receiver, a quick-release switch for the barrel shroud, and a sight base marked "PATENT/1932" on the right and "SUOMI/Tikkakoski" on the left. The barrel is dated "4-17-42", and a 3-position selector switch (safe/semi/full) extending into the triggerguard. The smooth hardwood stock is fitted with a brown leather sling and a steel buttplate. A tan canvas drum magazine pouch is included. https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/74/1502/tikka-suomi-kp31-fully-transferrable-cr-smg

Interesting casing deflector.

I guess the laws about short-barrel shotguns govern flare guns or grenade launchers that fire shotgun rounds.

- A 40mm Lewis Machine & Tool (LMT) blooper that loads special shells that fire four .410 shotshells.
https://lmtdefense.com/firearms/gl

40mm pistol?
They even have a shorter barrel version...
The Shorty Forty.

>>109299
I know you know this and know more about this stuff in general with your big computer brain but that's one thing I actually appreciate about the logic of the NFA.

If I buy a full auto transferable machine gun, I don't also have to pay the tax stamp for a short barrel because the weapon's status as a machine gun supersedes the need for non-machine gun legal statuses. Same with destructive devices. If it's a registered destructive device, who cares how short the barrel is?

The lawyers who authored this legislation could have been a lot MORE pants-on-head stupid when they wrote all this up and I'm glad they weren't.

  >>109301
No just wondering about big flare guns that might be able to load and fire special anti-personnel shells such as metal hulls that fit shotgun shells or multiple pistol or rifle rounds. The 27mm flare gun may be modified to look like a grenade launcher (as the one used in the 1983 movie Scarface), and you can attach it to an AR legally, and you can fire flares, smoke rounds or rubber ball training munitions out of it, but when you start loading anti-personnel rounds (Hornet's Nest or shotgun shells) that flare gun becomes a destructive device and you don't want to get burned on a weapon charge like that.

https://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/duty-gear/safety-amp-warning-equipment/m203-37mm-launcher-prod118458.aspx
LMT M203 37mm Flare Launcher https://youtu.be/CkU33L4MjK4

Another use for old flare guns is to turn them into Star Wars blasters, such as with this British WW1 Webley & Scott No.1 Mark I 1.5-inch (37mm) flare gun from 1914, later used as a police riot gun (for firing tear gas or rubber baton rounds), and then gussied up into a Boba Fett blaster.

>>109083
> That's still 6.5 and not 6.8 tho, why does the Army want 6.8 specifically?

That I don't know. I used 6.5 CM as an example because it's really popular and I've shot it like twice. (I'm not a PRS guy.)

> And why enlarge the diameter and not make the bullet longer? Would help with sectional density too.

6.5 CM already has really long bullets and still fits into a .308 overall length.

>6.5 CM already has really long bullets and still fits into a .308 overall length.

Yeah, you're right, probably due to geometry.

>https://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/node/32911

What's the trick with these? Carbide core?

>the XR-68 houses the SmarTak electronics system, an advanced weapons system design for real-time battlespace awareness.
Sounds kind of like the dozens of fancy looking eyepro mounted HALO HUD doodads I helped the armorer do a layout on the other week.

>we want the best inovative tech out there
>Nobody knows how to use it and it's expensive
>let's throw it in a box and only bring it out to count every change of command and then probably lose the cables when putting it all away time fucking now due to some absurd time hack
Army strong

>>109076
>Nothing the Army will ever take seriously.
This. The Army is moving toward a plastic cased ammunition for their next generation of rifles and LMGs so this is already dead in the water. It also doesn't do anything better than an AR in 5.56 as long as the barrel is at least 16 inches. You only run into problems with that cartridge and bullet when the barrel is chopped off. I am so sick of tards who fuck up a perfectly good, well-engineered product then either complain that it's badly designed or try to come up with a "fix" that is anything other than undoing their bubba-fudd hackjob.

>>109083
>why does the Army want 6.8 specifically?

Just an educated guess here. The reason they went full retard for the 6.8 SPC is the impressive performance--in ballistic gelatin, anyway--of a non-catalogued prototype 115gr .270 caliber Sierra MatchKing bullet that someone at Sierra was nice enough to load into some test ammunition for the Big Army circa 2002. Supposedly in tests they were highly impressed by its consistently rapid yaw cycle.

Which is weird because the conventional wisdom is that "fleet yaw" is a problem because yaw cycle is pretty random and inherently inconsistent and can't be affected greatly by bullet design or velocity, it just is what it is. (.303 British Mk. VIIz and 5.45mm 7N1 say "'sup?" I know, guys. I know.)

Nonetheless, the performance of two or three, max, of these Sierra bullets in Jello blocks made the Big Army's eyes bug out, back when they were still wedded to at least paying lip service to the Hague Convention, which the US never signed in the first place. Whether this level of performance could be sustained even in principle with ammunition using bullets that weren't basically handmade toolroom prototypes, I do not know.

I personally think there's no reason for the 6.8 SPC to exist. 6.5 Grendel does everything it purports to do, but better, with flatter trajectory and better retained velocity that, with carefully chosen bullets, (supposedly) catches up with and surpasses 7.62x51 NATO in terms of kinetic energy somewhere around 1100-1200m, and the high sectional density of 6.5mm bullets allows it to catch up with 7.62 in things like penetrating sandbags and wooden planks long before then. Of course, both 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel are both MUCH heavier, round for round than 5.56mm, allowing the guys at the sharp end to carry less ammo for the same weight, and being MUCH more powerful than 5.56 also means they're MUCH less controllable in full auto fire, and these were the exact problems 5.56mm was created to solve 55 years ago.

You'd think, though, that if the Big Army were serious, and not just fucking around with taxpayer money to give Special Forces new toys to make them feel more special, they'd convert the SAW or whatever its replacement is to the new caliber first and foremost, right? Because in modern fire-and-movement infantry tactics the SAW is the infantry squad and platoon's real teeth, the riflemen are just there to keep the SAW gunners from getting outflanked and overrun, amirite guise? So they'd either create a replacement for 5.56mm that fits in SAW links or design a new link and a SAW replacement around it, but almost 20 years on, exactly jack and shit have been done on those fronts.

Message too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>109260
I dunno.
Maybe from the miniature jet engines in the hollow bullets?

Federal HST .38 Special +P Review and Ballistic Gelatin Test
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/tested-federal-hst-38-special-p/
This new HST design is fairly unique and, as far as I know, it’s the first time a major ammo company has marketed and sold a .38 Special jacketed hollow point with an almost completely cylindrical profile

Federal is marketing this new load as a Micro HST, which means it will supposedly perform well even out of a short barrel. To pull this off, they’re using a 130 grain jacketed hollow point bullet with a unique new design. It’s basically a hollowed out cylinder that’s seated almost flush with the case mouth. Years ago, there was a fad where handloaders would stick wadcutter bullets backwards in the case hoping that would make them expand on impact. It didn’t really work, but this new HST kind of resembles that same concept only with a modern jacketed bullet.

Recovered bullets from the S&W 342PD gel test.

The barrel is only an eighth of an inch shorter than the 2-inch Kimber test gun, but every revolver is like a unique snowflake and you can’t always assume it will shoot within a specific velocity range based on barrel length alone. This turned out to be a perfect example. The Smith averaged 782 feet per second. That’s pretty slow — it’s 42 feet per second less than the Kimber, which I thought might be enough of a change to potentially have a measurable impact on terminal ballistics.

I actually happened to have one spare block of gelatin at the range and some pieces of our heavy clothing fabric barrier, so I did a quick gel test. The first shot looked really nice. Same kind of expansion as before with a respectable penetration depth of 12.8 inches. But (and here’s why we always do a five shot test), the next bullets did not penetrate quite as well. One of them hardly expanded and only made it to 10.4 inches.

So it looks like this bullet needs a minimum velocity around 800 feet per second in order to give it the best chance of meeting the FBI standard. Even though some of these were under the 12-inch ideal minimum, by .38 Special standards, this is actually not terrible performance overall. I probably would not carry it in this particular gun just because it’s so light and I’d rather have a standard pressure low recoil load that will let me get back on target quicker. With a slightly heavier gun, I would strongly consider using the HST, especially if the velocity clocked in at 800 or better.

>>109260
They are designed to deform when they hit something solid. Flying through the air, they are the same shape they are in the cartridge case.

They fly straight because the rifling makes them spin and gives the bullet gyroscopic stability.

>>109263
Expanding bullets with wadcutter-ish geometry aren't a new concept (see attached image, for early "National Ammunition"/"Liberty Ammunition" .38 Special Hydra-Shoks, circa 1977), but this is so far as I know the first time one of the big ammo makers has done it.

I personally don't understand why they believe it's necessary now, other than weirdness-for-its-own-sake ("It looks so different. That must mean it's really good, right bro?"). The HST, with its precut, prestressed soft lead wire core doesn't need unusual bullet shapes to expand reliably, as we see in the auto pistol caliber versions.

And when I ponder the possibility of fumbling with a revolver and a speedloader in a dark alley, while some crackhead amped up on bath salts and puffer fish toxin tries to kill me, those fat blunt cylindrical cartridges do not give me warm fuzzies. Give me a bullet design that's going to line up with those chambers and drop into place a little easier. Shrink the meplat 1/16" and bevel it at the point, or something. Throw me a bone here. Jesus.