mediocre photo of my S&W model 39-2, and my cat Mister Rusty

Marlin 1894 CST and 9000 pieces of .38 special brass. My LGS is going out of business, hell of a deal on all of it.

How much for the well-made submachine guns? Like the 1928 Thompson or Suomi kp/31?

Rock Island Auction has an original Colt Model 1921/1928 U.S. Navy Thompson submachine gun at an estimate price of $30,000 - $50,000.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/57/1777/colt-19211928-thompson-machine-gun-45-acp

And a Tikka Suomi KP/-31 submachine gun goes for $14,000 - $22,500. Those are much nicer than the stamped and welded $15 Grease Gun!
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/74/1502/tikka-suomi-kp31-fully-transferrable-cr-smg

Tikka Suomi KP/-31 Military Submachine Gun, Class III/NFA C&R Machine Gun, Fully Transferrable, with Magazine Pouch
Estimate Price: $14,000 - $22,500
Developed in the early 1930s, the Suomi KP (Suomi-konepistooli, literally Finnish Machine Pistol) was pictured as a squad-level substitute for a belt-fed light machine gun, being fed with a 71 round drum magazine; the KP and this drum would later be copied by the Soviets, in particular the PPD-40 and PPSh-41 SMGs. In combat, the KP was found to be an effective weapon, though not suited for the Squad Automatic Weapon niche; revised doctrine gave squads a dedicated light machine gun along with two SMG-equipped troopers, which gave units a very high density of close-quarters firepower, particularly while on the move or in dense forest. Among the most famous users was Simo Hayha, aka the White Death, one of Finland's most noted snipers, who reportedly eliminated 200+ enemy troopers with the SMG. Blade front and tangent rear sights, with a screw-mounted casing deflector on the right side of the receiver, a quick-release switch for the barrel shroud, and a sight base marked "PATENT/1932" on the right and "SUOMI/Tikkakoski" on the left. The barrel is dated "4-17-42", and a 3-position selector switch (safe/semi/full) extending into the triggerguard. The smooth hardwood stock is fitted with a brown leather sling and a steel buttplate. A tan canvas drum magazine pouch is included. https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/74/1502/tikka-suomi-kp31-fully-transferrable-cr-smg

Interesting casing deflector.

I guess the laws about short-barrel shotguns govern flare guns or grenade launchers that fire shotgun rounds.

- A 40mm Lewis Machine & Tool (LMT) blooper that loads special shells that fire four .410 shotshells.
https://lmtdefense.com/firearms/gl

40mm pistol?
They even have a shorter barrel version...
The Shorty Forty.

>>109299
I know you know this and know more about this stuff in general with your big computer brain but that's one thing I actually appreciate about the logic of the NFA.

If I buy a full auto transferable machine gun, I don't also have to pay the tax stamp for a short barrel because the weapon's status as a machine gun supersedes the need for non-machine gun legal statuses. Same with destructive devices. If it's a registered destructive device, who cares how short the barrel is?

The lawyers who authored this legislation could have been a lot MORE pants-on-head stupid when they wrote all this up and I'm glad they weren't.

  >>109301
No just wondering about big flare guns that might be able to load and fire special anti-personnel shells such as metal hulls that fit shotgun shells or multiple pistol or rifle rounds. The 27mm flare gun may be modified to look like a grenade launcher (as the one used in the 1983 movie Scarface), and you can attach it to an AR legally, and you can fire flares, smoke rounds or rubber ball training munitions out of it, but when you start loading anti-personnel rounds (Hornet's Nest or shotgun shells) that flare gun becomes a destructive device and you don't want to get burned on a weapon charge like that.

https://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/duty-gear/safety-amp-warning-equipment/m203-37mm-launcher-prod118458.aspx
LMT M203 37mm Flare Launcher https://youtu.be/CkU33L4MjK4

Another use for old flare guns is to turn them into Star Wars blasters, such as with this British WW1 Webley & Scott No.1 Mark I 1.5-inch (37mm) flare gun from 1914, later used as a police riot gun (for firing tear gas or rubber baton rounds), and then gussied up into a Boba Fett blaster.

>>109156

It was beautiful.
Not a reproduction. A Live, BoB Hurri.

Used to be at the Cave Creek airport.

Obligatory Tree-Post

>>109033
Some guys I spoke with who were in Iraq about 15 years back talked about the damnedest guntrucks, and hillbilly armor HMMWVs ("Mad Max cars") you can imagine. One of them swore that someone in his unit took the turret and 25mm autocannon off a wrecked Marine LAV25 and stuck them on top of a HMMWV but I don't find that very believable. That turret weighs just about as much as a HMMWV all by itself, doesn't it?

And now (supposedly) there are CROWS remote weapons kits that are off-the-shelf and bolt-on for HMMWVs that have laser rangefinders, ballistic computers that can be set up for the common weapons they get set up with (Mark 19s and Ma Deuce, mostly, I was told), and thermal imaging sights for the gunner.

This one's too neat-looking, in my opinion. Needs more spikes and razorwire welded to the front bumper, amirite guise?

>>109270
>That turret weighs just about as much as a HMMWV all by itself, doesn't it?

I could maybe see it if they stripped off most of the armour.

>>109288
Probs did something like this?

InRangeTV launched the What Would Stoner Do (WWSD) project in 2017 with the goal of revisiting the intentions of Eugene Stoner when he developed the AR10, ultimately scaled down to the AR15 with Jim Sullivan, wherein Stoner leveraged aerospace technologies, concepts and materials in regards to designing the world's most modern rifle. He succeeded in these goals but he was initially ahead of his time - an inline design composed of aluminum and fiberglass was something foreign & weird, certainly not a fighting man's rifle, right?

Ultimately the AR15 became the world's best, most reliable, handy and capable fighting rifle against all odds of existing bias and even sabotage. However, over time, the AR15 has gradually be modified by "one good idea at a time" and the AR/M16 of today has dramatically deviated from the original vision of Eugene Stoner. We aimed to bring the AR15 back to its roots, but with modern materials and concepts in 2017, and feel that we succeeded well beyond our expectations. The 2017 WWSD rifle turned into a wonderfully well balanced, accurate and durable gun that did indeed capture the spirit of those goals from the late 1950's.

Unfortunately, the only good and viable polymer lower on the market become nearly inaccessible. The company that manufactured them went dark and the remaining inventory of those on the market went up in value and became difficult to obtain. This lower was one of the most quintessential elements of what made the WWSD rifle what it is.

We are *very* excited to announce today that we're launching WWSD2020 in which we're going to revisit all of what we did in 2017, but now with a brand new Mk3 Lower that is being manufactured by KE Arms, under the watchful eye of Russell Phagan (Sinistral Rifleman), who has a superb and institutional knowledge of the previous lowers and can incorporate lessons learned into the manufacture of this new MK3 and WWSD2020 rifle.

Ultimately this effort will culminate in not only having a truly improved Mk3 version of this polymer lower on the market, but with also with *complete WWSD rifles* available through a partnership with Brownells!

Brownells has provided a landing page for this project and we plan to provide videos all the nitty gritty of the revisit of WWSD in 2020 on that page, including content that can't be published to YouTube.

You can find more information here: http://www.inrange.tv/wwsd2020

What kind of materials and design changes would you want to a 2020 AR-15 design?
Carbon fiber furniture? Titanium alloys?

Pic: XAR1501 - This is the first AR-15 ever made. We’ll repeat that — this is the very first AR-15, ever. Patient zero. The granddaddy of them all. Built by Armalite before 1958, this is Experimental AR-15 Number 1, prior to Colt’s involvement in the AR-15 program. On the orders of General Willard Wyman, Commanding General of the U.S. Continental Army Command, approximately 15 to 20 guns were built for initial testing. https://www.recoilweb.com/americas-rifle-the-ar-15-117770.html

From the report titled "Fifty-Seventh Report on Ordnance Project No. TS2-2015," dated 19 December 1958, as it was used extensively to put this guide together.

It is unknown the exact number of AR-15 prototypes that were produced for testing in the late 1950s, but it can be assumed that at least 28 were made. The Black Rifle cites L. James Sullivan on page 61 that 40 receiver sets were ordered in a run of 40 sets in 1959 (It seems that the timeline might be off, but I am also not going to go against the word of the man who literally made the AR-15 what it is). Does this mean that there could be closer to 68 rifles out there? I find it unlikely. The highest known serial number is SN 000027. Combining this fact with the information given by L. James Sullivan, I conclude that the total number of AR-15 prototypes produced probably lies somewhere between 28 and 40.

Below is a compilation of known pictures, current locations, configurations and test data on each rifle.

XAR1501 - In Reed Knight’s collection. ArmaLite’s first AR-15 prototype. Has non-adjustable rear sight and is missing M1/M14 style front sight. Has type 2 flash hider. Retains original 1-piece conical forearm, trigger charging handle, type 1 safety selector and fire control positions, and square-side bolt carrier with forward-pointed gas holes. Forearm and stock are painted in the same speckle paint as found on Hollywood AR-10s. According to the March 1996 issue of "Machine Gun News," both the upper and lower receiver are milled from billet aluminum. https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/The-Complete-ArmaLite-AR-15-Prototype-Guide/123-743191/

Colt AR-15 (Model 601) Serial Number 000112

This Model 601, serial number 000112, features absolutely beautiful, unpainted bakelite furniture. This is very unusual, and the fact that this rifle is the 14th Colt AR-15 Model 601 ever made just adds to the appeal. When it comes to aesthetics, Vickers considers this rifle to be at the top of the list for ARs. https://www.recoilweb.com/americas-rifle-the-ar-15-117770.html

Agreed. I personally prefer a simple, handy and sleek AR over the new age ones with all the bolt on shit. Even though that shit has its purpose don't get me wrong. Still working on my suppressed SP1 dissipator build.

>>109083
> That's still 6.5 and not 6.8 tho, why does the Army want 6.8 specifically?

That I don't know. I used 6.5 CM as an example because it's really popular and I've shot it like twice. (I'm not a PRS guy.)

> And why enlarge the diameter and not make the bullet longer? Would help with sectional density too.

6.5 CM already has really long bullets and still fits into a .308 overall length.

>6.5 CM already has really long bullets and still fits into a .308 overall length.

Yeah, you're right, probably due to geometry.

>https://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/node/32911

What's the trick with these? Carbide core?

>the XR-68 houses the SmarTak electronics system, an advanced weapons system design for real-time battlespace awareness.
Sounds kind of like the dozens of fancy looking eyepro mounted HALO HUD doodads I helped the armorer do a layout on the other week.

>we want the best inovative tech out there
>Nobody knows how to use it and it's expensive
>let's throw it in a box and only bring it out to count every change of command and then probably lose the cables when putting it all away time fucking now due to some absurd time hack
Army strong

>>109076
>Nothing the Army will ever take seriously.
This. The Army is moving toward a plastic cased ammunition for their next generation of rifles and LMGs so this is already dead in the water. It also doesn't do anything better than an AR in 5.56 as long as the barrel is at least 16 inches. You only run into problems with that cartridge and bullet when the barrel is chopped off. I am so sick of tards who fuck up a perfectly good, well-engineered product then either complain that it's badly designed or try to come up with a "fix" that is anything other than undoing their bubba-fudd hackjob.

>>109083
>why does the Army want 6.8 specifically?

Just an educated guess here. The reason they went full retard for the 6.8 SPC is the impressive performance--in ballistic gelatin, anyway--of a non-catalogued prototype 115gr .270 caliber Sierra MatchKing bullet that someone at Sierra was nice enough to load into some test ammunition for the Big Army circa 2002. Supposedly in tests they were highly impressed by its consistently rapid yaw cycle.

Which is weird because the conventional wisdom is that "fleet yaw" is a problem because yaw cycle is pretty random and inherently inconsistent and can't be affected greatly by bullet design or velocity, it just is what it is. (.303 British Mk. VIIz and 5.45mm 7N1 say "'sup?" I know, guys. I know.)

Nonetheless, the performance of two or three, max, of these Sierra bullets in Jello blocks made the Big Army's eyes bug out, back when they were still wedded to at least paying lip service to the Hague Convention, which the US never signed in the first place. Whether this level of performance could be sustained even in principle with ammunition using bullets that weren't basically handmade toolroom prototypes, I do not know.

I personally think there's no reason for the 6.8 SPC to exist. 6.5 Grendel does everything it purports to do, but better, with flatter trajectory and better retained velocity that, with carefully chosen bullets, (supposedly) catches up with and surpasses 7.62x51 NATO in terms of kinetic energy somewhere around 1100-1200m, and the high sectional density of 6.5mm bullets allows it to catch up with 7.62 in things like penetrating sandbags and wooden planks long before then. Of course, both 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel are both MUCH heavier, round for round than 5.56mm, allowing the guys at the sharp end to carry less ammo for the same weight, and being MUCH more powerful than 5.56 also means they're MUCH less controllable in full auto fire, and these were the exact problems 5.56mm was created to solve 55 years ago.

You'd think, though, that if the Big Army were serious, and not just fucking around with taxpayer money to give Special Forces new toys to make them feel more special, they'd convert the SAW or whatever its replacement is to the new caliber first and foremost, right? Because in modern fire-and-movement infantry tactics the SAW is the infantry squad and platoon's real teeth, the riflemen are just there to keep the SAW gunners from getting outflanked and overrun, amirite guise? So they'd either create a replacement for 5.56mm that fits in SAW links or design a new link and a SAW replacement around it, but almost 20 years on, exactly jack and shit have been done on those fronts.

Message too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>109260
I dunno.
Maybe from the miniature jet engines in the hollow bullets?

Federal HST .38 Special +P Review and Ballistic Gelatin Test
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/tested-federal-hst-38-special-p/
This new HST design is fairly unique and, as far as I know, it’s the first time a major ammo company has marketed and sold a .38 Special jacketed hollow point with an almost completely cylindrical profile

Federal is marketing this new load as a Micro HST, which means it will supposedly perform well even out of a short barrel. To pull this off, they’re using a 130 grain jacketed hollow point bullet with a unique new design. It’s basically a hollowed out cylinder that’s seated almost flush with the case mouth. Years ago, there was a fad where handloaders would stick wadcutter bullets backwards in the case hoping that would make them expand on impact. It didn’t really work, but this new HST kind of resembles that same concept only with a modern jacketed bullet.

Recovered bullets from the S&W 342PD gel test.

The barrel is only an eighth of an inch shorter than the 2-inch Kimber test gun, but every revolver is like a unique snowflake and you can’t always assume it will shoot within a specific velocity range based on barrel length alone. This turned out to be a perfect example. The Smith averaged 782 feet per second. That’s pretty slow — it’s 42 feet per second less than the Kimber, which I thought might be enough of a change to potentially have a measurable impact on terminal ballistics.

I actually happened to have one spare block of gelatin at the range and some pieces of our heavy clothing fabric barrier, so I did a quick gel test. The first shot looked really nice. Same kind of expansion as before with a respectable penetration depth of 12.8 inches. But (and here’s why we always do a five shot test), the next bullets did not penetrate quite as well. One of them hardly expanded and only made it to 10.4 inches.

So it looks like this bullet needs a minimum velocity around 800 feet per second in order to give it the best chance of meeting the FBI standard. Even though some of these were under the 12-inch ideal minimum, by .38 Special standards, this is actually not terrible performance overall. I probably would not carry it in this particular gun just because it’s so light and I’d rather have a standard pressure low recoil load that will let me get back on target quicker. With a slightly heavier gun, I would strongly consider using the HST, especially if the velocity clocked in at 800 or better.

>>109260
They are designed to deform when they hit something solid. Flying through the air, they are the same shape they are in the cartridge case.

They fly straight because the rifling makes them spin and gives the bullet gyroscopic stability.

>>109263
Expanding bullets with wadcutter-ish geometry aren't a new concept (see attached image, for early "National Ammunition"/"Liberty Ammunition" .38 Special Hydra-Shoks, circa 1977), but this is so far as I know the first time one of the big ammo makers has done it.

I personally don't understand why they believe it's necessary now, other than weirdness-for-its-own-sake ("It looks so different. That must mean it's really good, right bro?"). The HST, with its precut, prestressed soft lead wire core doesn't need unusual bullet shapes to expand reliably, as we see in the auto pistol caliber versions.

And when I ponder the possibility of fumbling with a revolver and a speedloader in a dark alley, while some crackhead amped up on bath salts and puffer fish toxin tries to kill me, those fat blunt cylindrical cartridges do not give me warm fuzzies. Give me a bullet design that's going to line up with those chambers and drop into place a little easier. Shrink the meplat 1/16" and bevel it at the point, or something. Throw me a bone here. Jesus.

>>109086
I dunno, it seems like a great option for handloading, instead of having to load with a scale you just stick the right pellet and do he rest. And isn't slow burning powder beneficial for many loads? As for bottleneck cartridges, i thought you open the case up before reloading anyway, if you don't, then yeah, it's not worth it of course.

>>109087
Now that I think about it, some people still hunt with percussion revolvers. One could make a replica for smokeless powder that in pellets will be easy and safe to load into the cylinder.

>hypervelocity bby
k so I'm fucking drunk as hell, but I've been thinking of a light gas gun using a straight cased 50 BMG and a 2" .224 BR barrel blank. Might require some gain-twist magic for accuracy though. So how long should the piston portion of this light gas gun be? If it's too short, we waste power, if it's too long, we waste power. What should the final angle of the taper in the straight-cased 50bmg piston chamber be? It'll be tapering down an HDPE piston tip to get max pressure so that angle might be important.

fuck I'm trying to get all the speeds and get a VLD .223 boolet going faster than it ever wants to go but I can't seem to figure out how many hydrogens can fit in ~18k joules of useful energy from this shit to pop that valve. I can't even get any external ballistics predictions because nobody really knows what happens when a 90gr .224 berger is going at sanic overblown themesong speaker speed. For simplicty, we have 4000 bar max pressure pushign a piston that's approximately 20mm in diameter, with the compressible side being 200 bar of hydrogen. How much of this hydrogern can we compress before the piston comes to a stop?

I remember that guy from /t/ saying he was an engineer student or some shit so he should plug in those numbers in his big enginner brain and get me some approximate numbers becuase I'm ready with them steel cutting tools like fuck I can make this shit just get me some guesstimates you lads will see some shit

>>109266
Sir this is a Wendy's

That sounds like some mad barrel burning shit.

>>109267
Lol that wasn't my most coherent post, I'll admit. Later this weekend I'll post pics for some CAD stuff I've been poking at to clear up that mess.

Nice thing about the design is that it only requires threads for the coupler to the burst disc valve and a throat for the bullet, so there's practically no machining involved with swapping barrels.

Side by side picture, sorry about the perspective I had to stack them on top of each other to get the side by side but you get the idea

Good job.

Awesome thread man!
>mfw completing one of these in my state is a felony

>>109245
Move to Maine.

>>109250
>just move
Real patriots don't run.

>>109193
Yes, but all of us are Russians or feds.

>>109253
Typical!
So that's why you uncultured proles have nothing to contribute on muskedunder discussions. Or even stuff on Spencer carbines.

>>109193
Get out now while you still have a chance.