>6.5 CM already has really long bullets and still fits into a .308 overall length.

Yeah, you're right, probably due to geometry.

>https://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/node/32911

What's the trick with these? Carbide core?

>the XR-68 houses the SmarTak electronics system, an advanced weapons system design for real-time battlespace awareness.
Sounds kind of like the dozens of fancy looking eyepro mounted HALO HUD doodads I helped the armorer do a layout on the other week.

>we want the best inovative tech out there
>Nobody knows how to use it and it's expensive
>let's throw it in a box and only bring it out to count every change of command and then probably lose the cables when putting it all away time fucking now due to some absurd time hack
Army strong

>>109076
>Nothing the Army will ever take seriously.
This. The Army is moving toward a plastic cased ammunition for their next generation of rifles and LMGs so this is already dead in the water. It also doesn't do anything better than an AR in 5.56 as long as the barrel is at least 16 inches. You only run into problems with that cartridge and bullet when the barrel is chopped off. I am so sick of tards who fuck up a perfectly good, well-engineered product then either complain that it's badly designed or try to come up with a "fix" that is anything other than undoing their bubba-fudd hackjob.

>>109083
>why does the Army want 6.8 specifically?

Just an educated guess here. The reason they went full retard for the 6.8 SPC is the impressive performance--in ballistic gelatin, anyway--of a non-catalogued prototype 115gr .270 caliber Sierra MatchKing bullet that someone at Sierra was nice enough to load into some test ammunition for the Big Army circa 2002. Supposedly in tests they were highly impressed by its consistently rapid yaw cycle.

Which is weird because the conventional wisdom is that "fleet yaw" is a problem because yaw cycle is pretty random and inherently inconsistent and can't be affected greatly by bullet design or velocity, it just is what it is. (.303 British Mk. VIIz and 5.45mm 7N1 say "'sup?" I know, guys. I know.)

Nonetheless, the performance of two or three, max, of these Sierra bullets in Jello blocks made the Big Army's eyes bug out, back when they were still wedded to at least paying lip service to the Hague Convention, which the US never signed in the first place. Whether this level of performance could be sustained even in principle with ammunition using bullets that weren't basically handmade toolroom prototypes, I do not know.

I personally think there's no reason for the 6.8 SPC to exist. 6.5 Grendel does everything it purports to do, but better, with flatter trajectory and better retained velocity that, with carefully chosen bullets, (supposedly) catches up with and surpasses 7.62x51 NATO in terms of kinetic energy somewhere around 1100-1200m, and the high sectional density of 6.5mm bullets allows it to catch up with 7.62 in things like penetrating sandbags and wooden planks long before then. Of course, both 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel are both MUCH heavier, round for round than 5.56mm, allowing the guys at the sharp end to carry less ammo for the same weight, and being MUCH more powerful than 5.56 also means they're MUCH less controllable in full auto fire, and these were the exact problems 5.56mm was created to solve 55 years ago.

You'd think, though, that if the Big Army were serious, and not just fucking around with taxpayer money to give Special Forces new toys to make them feel more special, they'd convert the SAW or whatever its replacement is to the new caliber first and foremost, right? Because in modern fire-and-movement infantry tactics the SAW is the infantry squad and platoon's real teeth, the riflemen are just there to keep the SAW gunners from getting outflanked and overrun, amirite guise? So they'd either create a replacement for 5.56mm that fits in SAW links or design a new link and a SAW replacement around it, but almost 20 years on, exactly jack and shit have been done on those fronts.

Message too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>109271
Turns out it's 6.8 but not SPC and all three entries look fairly interesting. If the telescopic ammo gun actually works and doesn't jam in a way that's impossible to clear they will surely find clients even if the US doesn't adopt it.

Do you want to use these starter guns for target practice? Outdoor plinking? Hunting? Defense?
Many good, inexpensive choices for the various uses.

You could go to an indoor range that has rentals, overcome pride and embarrassment and ask whoever is behind the counter so you can test some stuff out. They may actually offer basic gun safety classes you could take to get familiar with things before you lay cash down.

Tough to beat a .22. Or an assortment of .22s covering pistol, semi-auto rifle, bolt-action rifle. Lot of cheap learning and fun to be had with them. .22 pistols can be especially finicky on ammo and help you familiarize yourself with clearing malfunctions.

But if you're dead set on not doing that, I would recommend a police trade-in or otherwise used (unmodified) Glock 17 or 19. They can be had for $400 or under, inexpensive to feed, work reliably and have great parts availability for you to learn on. Becoming a better pistol shooter pays dividends in automatically making you a better rifle shooter. The fundamentals of sight alignment, trigger control and handling recoil are more difficult on handguns so if you solidify your skills on a handgun, rifle shooting will be faster and easier to pick up. Learning on a spongy Glock trigger will give you a greater appreciation for every other trigger you later enjoy. Handling recoil on a lightweight polymer gun will give you a greater appreciation for the reassuring weight of an all steel pistol.

Just remember safety is first regardless of what you pick.

>>109447
>Just remember safety is first regardless of what you pick.
This x1000.
What do you intend to use the firearm for OP? Just plinking? A .22 is an excellent choice. Don't want a .22? Get a Ruger PC carbine >>109328 and use the magwell that accepts Glock mags. If it's for home defense, the 9mm carbine would do OK there too. Plus 9mm is cheap. Get a 9mm.

There.
And here's a page on The 10 Best AR-10s in 2020
https://improb.com/best-ar-10/

And here's a page on “CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?” The Trials and Tribulations of Building an AR-10 Pistol
https://www.kommandoblog.com/2017/05/26/can-you-hear-me-now-the-trials-and-tribulations-of-building-an-ar10-pistol/

DPMS Panther with a Pulsar ND550 night vision digiscope.

Awesome thread man!
>mfw completing one of these in my state is a felony

>>109245
Move to Maine.

>>109250
>just move
Real patriots don't run.

>>109256
Cool well have fun burying your guns once your lack off community fails to do anything when gun control happens to your state.

Honestly if all gun owners in the US just moved to 2 or 3 states then those states would forever vote against gun control and have a probable chance of leaving the union later on. But that'll never happen so the minority of pro gun voters will just be continually out voted in every election until there's nothing left of freedom.

>>109318
14 y/o detected.

Tikka Suomi KP/-31 Military Submachine Gun, Class III/NFA C&R Machine Gun, Fully Transferrable, with Magazine Pouch
Estimate Price: $14,000 - $22,500
Developed in the early 1930s, the Suomi KP (Suomi-konepistooli, literally Finnish Machine Pistol) was pictured as a squad-level substitute for a belt-fed light machine gun, being fed with a 71 round drum magazine; the KP and this drum would later be copied by the Soviets, in particular the PPD-40 and PPSh-41 SMGs. In combat, the KP was found to be an effective weapon, though not suited for the Squad Automatic Weapon niche; revised doctrine gave squads a dedicated light machine gun along with two SMG-equipped troopers, which gave units a very high density of close-quarters firepower, particularly while on the move or in dense forest. Among the most famous users was Simo Hayha, aka the White Death, one of Finland's most noted snipers, who reportedly eliminated 200+ enemy troopers with the SMG. Blade front and tangent rear sights, with a screw-mounted casing deflector on the right side of the receiver, a quick-release switch for the barrel shroud, and a sight base marked "PATENT/1932" on the right and "SUOMI/Tikkakoski" on the left. The barrel is dated "4-17-42", and a 3-position selector switch (safe/semi/full) extending into the triggerguard. The smooth hardwood stock is fitted with a brown leather sling and a steel buttplate. A tan canvas drum magazine pouch is included. https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/74/1502/tikka-suomi-kp31-fully-transferrable-cr-smg

Interesting casing deflector.

I guess the laws about short-barrel shotguns govern flare guns or grenade launchers that fire shotgun rounds.

- A 40mm Lewis Machine & Tool (LMT) blooper that loads special shells that fire four .410 shotshells.
https://lmtdefense.com/firearms/gl

40mm pistol?
They even have a shorter barrel version...
The Shorty Forty.

>>109299
I know you know this and know more about this stuff in general with your big computer brain but that's one thing I actually appreciate about the logic of the NFA.

If I buy a full auto transferable machine gun, I don't also have to pay the tax stamp for a short barrel because the weapon's status as a machine gun supersedes the need for non-machine gun legal statuses. Same with destructive devices. If it's a registered destructive device, who cares how short the barrel is?

The lawyers who authored this legislation could have been a lot MORE pants-on-head stupid when they wrote all this up and I'm glad they weren't.

  >>109301
No just wondering about big flare guns that might be able to load and fire special anti-personnel shells such as metal hulls that fit shotgun shells or multiple pistol or rifle rounds. The 27mm flare gun may be modified to look like a grenade launcher (as the one used in the 1983 movie Scarface), and you can attach it to an AR legally, and you can fire flares, smoke rounds or rubber ball training munitions out of it, but when you start loading anti-personnel rounds (Hornet's Nest or shotgun shells) that flare gun becomes a destructive device and you don't want to get burned on a weapon charge like that.

https://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/duty-gear/safety-amp-warning-equipment/m203-37mm-launcher-prod118458.aspx
LMT M203 37mm Flare Launcher https://youtu.be/CkU33L4MjK4

Another use for old flare guns is to turn them into Star Wars blasters, such as with this British WW1 Webley & Scott No.1 Mark I 1.5-inch (37mm) flare gun from 1914, later used as a police riot gun (for firing tear gas or rubber baton rounds), and then gussied up into a Boba Fett blaster.

>>109260
I dunno.
Maybe from the miniature jet engines in the hollow bullets?

Federal HST .38 Special +P Review and Ballistic Gelatin Test
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/tested-federal-hst-38-special-p/
This new HST design is fairly unique and, as far as I know, it’s the first time a major ammo company has marketed and sold a .38 Special jacketed hollow point with an almost completely cylindrical profile

Federal is marketing this new load as a Micro HST, which means it will supposedly perform well even out of a short barrel. To pull this off, they’re using a 130 grain jacketed hollow point bullet with a unique new design. It’s basically a hollowed out cylinder that’s seated almost flush with the case mouth. Years ago, there was a fad where handloaders would stick wadcutter bullets backwards in the case hoping that would make them expand on impact. It didn’t really work, but this new HST kind of resembles that same concept only with a modern jacketed bullet.

Recovered bullets from the S&W 342PD gel test.

The barrel is only an eighth of an inch shorter than the 2-inch Kimber test gun, but every revolver is like a unique snowflake and you can’t always assume it will shoot within a specific velocity range based on barrel length alone. This turned out to be a perfect example. The Smith averaged 782 feet per second. That’s pretty slow — it’s 42 feet per second less than the Kimber, which I thought might be enough of a change to potentially have a measurable impact on terminal ballistics.

I actually happened to have one spare block of gelatin at the range and some pieces of our heavy clothing fabric barrier, so I did a quick gel test. The first shot looked really nice. Same kind of expansion as before with a respectable penetration depth of 12.8 inches. But (and here’s why we always do a five shot test), the next bullets did not penetrate quite as well. One of them hardly expanded and only made it to 10.4 inches.

So it looks like this bullet needs a minimum velocity around 800 feet per second in order to give it the best chance of meeting the FBI standard. Even though some of these were under the 12-inch ideal minimum, by .38 Special standards, this is actually not terrible performance overall. I probably would not carry it in this particular gun just because it’s so light and I’d rather have a standard pressure low recoil load that will let me get back on target quicker. With a slightly heavier gun, I would strongly consider using the HST, especially if the velocity clocked in at 800 or better.

>>109260
They are designed to deform when they hit something solid. Flying through the air, they are the same shape they are in the cartridge case.

They fly straight because the rifling makes them spin and gives the bullet gyroscopic stability.

>>109263
Expanding bullets with wadcutter-ish geometry aren't a new concept (see attached image, for early "National Ammunition"/"Liberty Ammunition" .38 Special Hydra-Shoks, circa 1977), but this is so far as I know the first time one of the big ammo makers has done it.

I personally don't understand why they believe it's necessary now, other than weirdness-for-its-own-sake ("It looks so different. That must mean it's really good, right bro?"). The HST, with its precut, prestressed soft lead wire core doesn't need unusual bullet shapes to expand reliably, as we see in the auto pistol caliber versions.

And when I ponder the possibility of fumbling with a revolver and a speedloader in a dark alley, while some crackhead amped up on bath salts and puffer fish toxin tries to kill me, those fat blunt cylindrical cartridges do not give me warm fuzzies. Give me a bullet design that's going to line up with those chambers and drop into place a little easier. Shrink the meplat 1/16" and bevel it at the point, or something. Throw me a bone here. Jesus.

>>109086
I dunno, it seems like a great option for handloading, instead of having to load with a scale you just stick the right pellet and do he rest. And isn't slow burning powder beneficial for many loads? As for bottleneck cartridges, i thought you open the case up before reloading anyway, if you don't, then yeah, it's not worth it of course.

>>109087
Now that I think about it, some people still hunt with percussion revolvers. One could make a replica for smokeless powder that in pellets will be easy and safe to load into the cylinder.

>hypervelocity bby
k so I'm fucking drunk as hell, but I've been thinking of a light gas gun using a straight cased 50 BMG and a 2" .224 BR barrel blank. Might require some gain-twist magic for accuracy though. So how long should the piston portion of this light gas gun be? If it's too short, we waste power, if it's too long, we waste power. What should the final angle of the taper in the straight-cased 50bmg piston chamber be? It'll be tapering down an HDPE piston tip to get max pressure so that angle might be important.

fuck I'm trying to get all the speeds and get a VLD .223 boolet going faster than it ever wants to go but I can't seem to figure out how many hydrogens can fit in ~18k joules of useful energy from this shit to pop that valve. I can't even get any external ballistics predictions because nobody really knows what happens when a 90gr .224 berger is going at sanic overblown themesong speaker speed. For simplicty, we have 4000 bar max pressure pushign a piston that's approximately 20mm in diameter, with the compressible side being 200 bar of hydrogen. How much of this hydrogern can we compress before the piston comes to a stop?

I remember that guy from /t/ saying he was an engineer student or some shit so he should plug in those numbers in his big enginner brain and get me some approximate numbers becuase I'm ready with them steel cutting tools like fuck I can make this shit just get me some guesstimates you lads will see some shit

>>109266
Sir this is a Wendy's

That sounds like some mad barrel burning shit.

>>109267
Lol that wasn't my most coherent post, I'll admit. Later this weekend I'll post pics for some CAD stuff I've been poking at to clear up that mess.

Nice thing about the design is that it only requires threads for the coupler to the burst disc valve and a throat for the bullet, so there's practically no machining involved with swapping barrels.

>>109193
Yes, but all of us are Russians or feds.

>>109253
Typical!
So that's why you uncultured proles have nothing to contribute on muskedunder discussions. Or even stuff on Spencer carbines.

>>109193
Get out now while you still have a chance.

Josef "Sepp" Allerberger was the second most successful sniper of the German Wehrmacht and one of the few private soldiers to be honoured with the award of the Knight's Cross.

In this harrowing memoir, Allerberger provides an excellent introduction to the commitment in fieldcraft, discipline and routine required of the sniper, a man apart. There was no place for chivalry on the Russian Front. Away from the film cameras, no prisoner survived long after surrendering. Russian snipers had used the illegal explosive bullet since 1941, and Hitler eventually authorised its issue in 1944. The result was a battlefield of horror.

Pistolsmithing - George C Nonte Jr.

Everything and anything a man would need to know about the maintenance and upkeep and repair of pistols. This book is an extremely valuable addition to any firearm enthusiasts library. Nonte shares his grand store of knowledge from a lifelong career as a gunsmith. Anyone looking to do a little bit of work on their pistol would be well off reading this before starting out.

What it is like to go to War - Karl Marlantes

War is as old as humankind, but in the past, warriors were prepared for battle by ritual, religion and literature -- which also helped bring them home. In a compelling narrative, Marlantes weaves riveting accounts of his combat experiences with thoughtful analysis, self-examination and his readings -- from Homer to the Mahabharata to Jung. He talks frankly about how he is haunted by the face of the young North Vietnamese soldier he killed at close quarters and how he finally finds a way to make peace with his past. Marlantes discusses the daily contradictions that warriors face in the grind of war, where each battle requires them to take life or spare life, and where they enter a state he likens to the fervor of religious ecstasy.

The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare by Damien Lewis

Lassen was part of the crew for the first real SOE operation, the theft of a pair of German and Italian supply ships from the neutral Spanish port at Fernando Po. In an exploit that could be straight out of Hollywood, a band of commandoes sailed a pair of tugboats into the harbor at night while the ships' officers were ashore at a raucous party. They blew the anchor chains with explosive charges, locked the crews below deck, and sailed the ships out to sea where they could be legally captured by a British destroyer. And they did it without a single death on either side. The exploits only became bigger and bolder after that, with Lassen and his comrades making regular raids across the English Channel and running a freewheeling campaign of both hit-and-run raids and occupation of Greek islands in the Aegean. These were the quintessential independent Special Forces fighters, operating outside regular military command structures and supply chains, fighting as they saw fit. Lassen eventually because the commanding officer of a large group, and by the end of the war had been awarded the Military Cross three times. His last operation in Italy - where his men were hit with a shattering defeat when pushed into the role of spearheading a conventional offensive - would result in him posthumously receiving the Victoria Cross for his heroism.

My Dude,

Where should we start?