A lot of semi-autos house the main action spring in the stock. As far as I know, both Mossberg and Remington use this setup for their current production semi-auto shotguns. They would have to put the main action spring around the magazine tube or somewhere else that would allow for a "stockless" design.

It seems to me that the prototyping and redesign over what can be arguably called a "gimmick" or "loophole gun" would make the semi-auto "shockwave" guns somewhat unmarketable.

The Turkish 1919 shotgun pictured here could be a good candidate for this kind of thing. The stock/fake buffer tube can be removed completely without any change in the mechanical function of the firearm, making it a giant shotgun pistol grip only thing. Sadly it's not a very good shotgun to begin with so it would again just be a range toy. Nothing wrong with that though, even if the 1919 isn't really a shotgun that could be trusted with any serious purpose, it doesn't fail to make me smile.

>the shit below is an attempt to explain the limited marketability of "shockwave" setups in my anecdotal opinions
>its mostly conflicted rambling and can be ignored
Although I tend to think stockless shotguns are more of a range silly thing than a good choice for defensive purposes because they are indeed harder to shoot accurately as quickly as a stocked shotgun, I do see their value in a few ways. I would personally take a normal 18.5" PGO setup for a few reasons however.

First is that I hate bird's head grips. I think they are terrible at everything, and a thousand times out of a thousand, I would choose a pistol grip like the one seen on this picture related 1919. This is very personal so this point obviously doesn't apply to many people. I would actually be okay with a pistol grip that has a few inches of "stock" after it (as if you cut off the last half of an AR-15's buffer tube) to comply with the length requirements for the shockwave-style stuff while still having a grip that doesn't make me hate life.

Second, a shorter barrel may look cool and provide a bit more of a compact setup, but if you're going to be using this defensively, you have to consider the noise and blast that accompanies a shorter barrel. I would be willing to trade a few inches of compactness if it means my eardrums do not cave in. Obviously, hearing damage will definitely still occur, but just a few decibels (a logarithmic scale) can make a lot of difference in how fucked you may be after the first shell fired.

Finally, unless all these things start costing less than a regular shotgun + tax stamp, they will always be pretty niche items.

Message too long. Click here to view the full text.

what model is in OP's pick? the wood furniture one is dead sexy.

>>107168
Pretty sure it's a Remington 1100.

okay, but consider:
Shockwave style auto 5

>>107209
So a whippet gun?

Just find someone making auto 5 clones

>>105846
>I'd like to stay with inertia driven for the purposes of simplicity.

It's my understanding that this generates more perceived recoil though.
And it's not like the alternatives are especially complex.

>Primary use of the gun would be for Skeet/Trap, as well as Home Defense and potentially 3 gun further down the road.

My gut tells me that skeet/trap have quite different requirements than 3-gun, but I'm sure that someone with more experience in that can shed more light on it.

>>105847

>My gut tells me that skeet/trap have quite different requirements than 3-gun, but I'm sure that someone with more experience in that can shed more light on it.

Yeah, basically I'm presuming that if I move on to 3-gun I'll get something else for trap and skeet like a Super Vinci or something. I know that the M2 and the M3000 can both become 3 gun shotguns through basic mods, but they can operate as trap/skeet guns immediately. Doe that make sense? It's why I'm not looking at a Vinci now; it can be a trap/skeet gun but it really doesn't have the aftermarket to support it as a 3 gun shotgun.

I also forgot to mention, but having the ability to get a Slug barrel would be nice as well. Here in Ohio most firearm deer hunting seems do be done with shotguns and the option would be good. Though it's a secondary concern, I could probably pick up a used 870 Police Magnum and get a slug barrel for not all that much.

>>105853

Plenty of slugs work fine without rifling though. So depending on what you aim for, a dedicated slug barrel may not be required.

>>103512
you do do you, man. I've slowly arrived here over the years.
Guns are expensive to replace, buy the ones that last.

>>105864
Indeed!
Rifled lead slugs can be fired through regular smoothbore shotgun barrels, even ones with chokes, although improved cylinder works best. The rifling on these lead slugs imparts very little spin, but it allows these slugs to be swedged through any size normal choke. A rifled shotgun barrel allows you to shoot the more accurate sabot or copper-jacketed slugs.

Years ago, I bought a $200 Remington 850 pump and added a $90 Mossberg rifled shotgun barrel. Really unnecessary as I use cheap Brenneke slugs, but the barrel came with a length of rails that extends over the top of the lock that can fit sights to it. I put a cheap reflex sight on it and it works great at the 100 yard range that slugs are effective in. Other hunters love red dot scopes on their slug barrels.

>>103134
Ahhh right, that's probably handy for switching to a slug but malfunction clearing then needs an extra step.

I see, I see.

Your action bar spring clip is missing.It connects the inertia weight to the action bar. Inertia weight is the thing with the gas rings on it. there is a band type clip that holds them together. See pic # 102794. The action bar is way to high on the inertia weight. Notice the groove on the weight, there is supposed to be a band clip there.The action bar should be about as high up as the arrow on the instruction sticker on the weight.Maybe the action bar has slipped out of its' groove on the inertia weight. barrel side.

>>107169
The Googlers are at it again!

>>107175
Hey, not a bad thing. Maybe they'll have a look around and stay.


>>107169
Welcome to operatorchan.

>>107169

Huh - thanks for the input! I'll take a look at it the next time I'm at the in-laws and see if the position of the action bar can be modified.

As a follow up, I did end up getting a Stoeger M3000 (28in, walnut). I was in a Dick's (I know, but it was before the unpleasantness) returning a shirt and they gave me a 15% off coupon. I went up to the gun counter, they had one in stock, and were willing to test if the system would accept the coupon on firearms and ammo. Sure enough, it did! The action was a little rough, but smoothed out with repeated manipulation and snap-cap loading. I like the way it shoots, but now I've caught the shotgun bug and am looking for something pump in the 18.5-20in range. Whoops.

  >>107198
> full retard overgassed

I'm pretty pleased with the SLR gas block. The word is they're pretty durable and reliable.

Check out the JP Rifles video Mass vs Gas.

> carbon fiber wrap barrels

For .223? I've seen plenty of 22LR barrels, which sounds fine. Steel is pretty good for the whole barrel thing.

>>107202
They are steel, just a small diameter that gets wrapped in carbon fiber. You can get them in .338, .223 will be fine.

  >>107202
>Check out the JP Rifles video Mass vs Gas.
Good basic overview, but it doesn't really address the little details of bolt bounce from a standard spring and buffer system. Probably doesn't apply with the JP captured springs and all that fancy stuff. Vuurwapen touches a bit on this type of thing in video related.

>>107202
>>107204
There's a lot of carbon fiber wrap barrels out there, they are not made equal. Although my experience is limited, I'm willing to try out the Proof Research barrels. They offer a very stiff and accurate barrel for what basically amounts to pencil-profile steel weight. I've seen them in calibers up to 338 Lapua, and I've heard of a test where a shooter dumped a hundred rounds through his 308 Norma Mag as fast as he could cycle his bolt action. Keep in mind that caliber is very close to a 300 Win Mag, a hundred rounds that fast is quite a lot and it'll get the barrel cooking hard. Heat mirage over the barrel made precision shooting almost impossible, but still the Proof Research barrel didn't show much point of impact shift. The barrel cooled very quickly, quicker than any steel barrel, and proceeded to fire a group of the same size and position as the first cold-bore group.

This test is hearsay and anecdotal, but the witness is trustworthy. Still, I'm still skeptical and I'll definitely be honest as I'm spending my own money on this. Even with magazine limitations, I know I can get a barrel fucking hot, and I'll definitely try out various tests myself and report without sugarcoating.

I think the best part about the WWSD project is the fact that a good polymer lower can save you weight and not give up a bit of functionality or durability. If the price of AR lowers ever rises, I'd love to see GWACS improve the old CavArms design. I don't think they'd ever sell enough to pay down the tooling cost with the cost of aluminum lowers such as they are.

The carbon fiber handguard is neat too. The light weight, strength, and heat rejection are real benefits if you can get past the cost.

Here's a good article on good carbon wrap barrel.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek092.html

From what I understand at this point, carbon fiber is much more complicated than at first blush. The epoxy and the weave pattern matter a whole lot, and both can dramatically change the properties of the final product to such an extent that they appear polar opposites.

For example, a carbon fiber handguard can be so insulating that it stays cool in direct sunlight and high round counts. However, with the right wrap and epoxy compound, a carbon fiber wrap barrel can conduct heat away faster than steel. In essence, the carbon fiber wrap acts like a massive heat sink that dissipates heat into the outside air very efficiently, cooling the steel barrel within quickly.

We all seem to think firearms have plateaued, and while that may be true for the basic form and function of standard cased munition firearms, I think we will see many changes stemming from material sciences. What now may be fancy expensive accessories or components will get cheaper, and with that might come changes to firearm designs that will reduce weight, improve durability, and other such factors. I think in the next decade or two, carbon fiber and other such boutique materials could become as prevalent as polymer is now.

>>107154
Seconded, Ruger MKwhatever pistols are best value/money for .22LR blowbacks. Hands down.

>>107155
Still prefer the Browning Buckmark slightly above the Ruger Mk series.

>>107156
I recently compared my S&W 41 side by side against a Ruger Mk IV Competition. The Ruger was nice, but the 41 simply has a better trigger.

God tier mkiii 22\45 Hunter with VQ trigger easy disassembly kit and drop free mag mod

>>107154
.22LRs are cheating. If we're including them, my Kadet kit is the shit.

>>107157
That's also cheating. The Model 41 is the Registered Magnum of .22LR target pistols.

>>107140
kinda
The diabolo shape keeps it pointed in the right direction, but lack of spin supposedly makes the effects of wind more pronounced. Probably won't win you any bench rest matches.

>>107145
For this kind of gimmicky thing, I wouldn't assume they are aiming for sub-minute. I'm intrigued by it on principle, an accurate smoothbore is interesting just because it's different, and it's something that piques my curiosity.

It also might actually be a way to make cheap plinking cheaper. Cheap barrels, a simple swaged bullet design, just something to shoot standing within 100 yards or serve as short range self-defense carbine that would be cheap and effective.

>>106823
So anyone want to try and jump on this train now to defuck this concept?

>>107142
Pellets are at a huge disadvantage compared to bullets, they actually start to lose velocity while still in the barrel.

To add more velocity, companies like FX airguns introduced something they call smooth twist barrels where the majority of the barrel is smooth, but it has a bit of rifling at the end to impart stabilization. Pretty much try to reduce friction as much as possible.

Technically, that technology has been around for a long time and shotguns have been using rifled chokes. But, this is the first time in an airgun and it is definitely more useful there than in the world of chemical propellants.

Let me know if you have any other questions, I've been obsessed with big bore airguns as of late.

>>107152
>Pellets are at a huge disadvantage compared to bullets, they actually start to lose velocity while still in the barrel.
I can see this being the case with compressed air-propelled pellets.

My main question was about accuracy. If you fired a pellet at a supersonic speed with a smoothbore barrel, would the pellet tumble?

My posts as a whole in this thread were mostly directed to using a bullet design that would not need gyroscopic stability in supersonic flight for use in the Franklin Armory Reformation smoothbore rifle. Their "30 cents over regular ammo" thing sounds very expensive for their nerf football bullet, so a handloader or ammunition manufacturer could potentially make a cheap bullet with half decent accuracy for that type of rifle.

>>107136
Reminds me of range stories, such as one about people shooting a semi-auto Tommy Gun and suddenly it went full-auto after burning through a number of drums. The shooter had good presence of mind and kept hold of the out-of-control Thompson until all the ammo remaining in that 50-round drum was expended. Don't know if it was a mechanical malfunction or an ammo cook-off from a hot breech. When it went haywire, he yelled something along the lines of "Holy moley! My finger's off the trigger but this Devil machine is firing on its own!" Perhaps with responses like "Dude, you're in unlawful possession of an unlicensed machine-gun. The Feds'll send you up the river for thirty years!"

It does happen
National guard drill instructor convicted
http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=14780

>>107137
I've heard you can get the same effect with a milsurp SKS if it's not cleaned properly before use. Floating firing pin gets gummed up with Cosmoline and sticks, striking the primer as soon as the round is chambered and keeps going until the mag is empty.

And then there was the magazine article about doing a trigger job on an AK that neglected to mention that their method could make a slamfiring illegal machine gun.

>>107138
The way I understand that is if you knowingly replicate a malfunction causing "machine gun" fire, it's illegal, but if it's a legit accident and you don't keep doing it, you're probably okay.

>>107147
I've had a slamfire happen with S&B commercial ammo in my SKS, it was clean and the firing pin was perfectly free.

Thankfully it only fired one round that way as I hadn't finished topping it up, so my dogs weren't shot.

>>107136
>>107137
Well, I only happened to have three rounds left in the magazine, so I have no idea if it would've continued if there were more, or if it would've done a burst and stopped.

>>107147
Yeah, it only happened once, and hasn't happened again since its last cleaning, so I should be good for a while.

No, really, I ask... who would pay that kind of money for this?

Reminds me of explaining the advantages of having a tribble...

SPOCK - There is something disquieting about these creatures.
MCCOY - Oh? Don't tell me you've got a feeling, Spock?
SPOCK - Of course not, Doctor. They remind me somewhat of the lilies of the field. They toil not, neither do they spin... but they seem to eat a great deal. I see no practical use for them.
MCCOY - Does everything have to have a practical use for you? They're... nice. They're furry and soft. They make a pleasant sound.
SPOCK - So would an ermine violin, Doctor, but I see no advantage in one.

>>102987
We lost a bunch of images in older threads due to a software fuck-up awhile ago, though it looks like most of those have been pushed off the end of the board already. Stoplossed's ancient M1 Garand improvement thread, >>90456, still shows the effect, but that's no reason to delete the whole thing.

I went and deleted that whole thread myself. About half of the images were unviewable.

Anyone tried a shotgun suppressor?
- US Remington 870 MCS AOW shotgun with a Salvo suppressor.

>>102960
You meant to type the feds shoot your dog, kids, and wife.

>>102941
fuckin useless but fun. get bird shot and get good at hip firing its a blast