-  [WT]  [Home] [Manage]

[Return] [Entire Thread] [Last 50 posts]
Posting mode: Reply
Name
Email
Subject   (reply to 102788)
Message
File
File URL
Embed   Help
Password  (for post and file deletion)
  • Supported file types are: GIF, JPG, PNG, WEBM
  • Maximum file size allowed is 5120 KB.
  • Images greater than 300x300 pixels will be thumbnailed.
  • Currently 934 unique user posts. View catalog

  • Blotter updated: 2017-02-04 Show/Hide Show All

File 148721126878.jpg - (3.01MB , 4160x3120 , IMG_20170215_202849146.jpg )
102788 No. 102788 ID: 85f7d3
Evening guys,

I have a Mossberg 9200 12 gauge that I took trap shooting, and somewhere around the 50 round mark the bolt locked back and won't budge. A similar malfunction occurred earlier in the day, but was cleared with a simple butt-stroke and the gun functioned without error for the next 40 rounds or so. I'm not sure if this is a issue with the bolt or the action bar, but neither piece will move. Any guidance on troubleshooting this would be greatly appreciated.

(also if this is in the wrong place feel free to move it)
Expand all images
>> No. 102790 ID: 85f7d3
File 148721144367.jpg - (2.76MB , 3120x4160 , IMG_20170215_203039688.jpg )
102790
No idea why that initial picture got all turned around...

Here is a close up of where the bolt is inside the receiver: some preliminary research suggests that the bolt may have snagged on an internal guide? I don't know much about the gun itself (I'm borrowing it from my future father-in-law) and I hoped some extra eyes would help.
>> No. 102791 ID: 85f7d3
File 148721152828.jpg - (2.96MB , 4160x3120 , IMG_20170215_202927212.jpg )
102791
Here is another pic from the side.
>> No. 102792 ID: 85f7d3
File 148721157279.jpg - (4.09MB , 3120x4160 , IMG_20170215_203106851.jpg )
102792
The charging handle can be easily removed to see into the bolt - not sure if this is at all useful.
>> No. 102793 ID: 85f7d3
File 148721160355.jpg - (3.09MB , 3120x4160 , IMG_20170215_203142872.jpg )
102793
Here is the action bar.
>> No. 102794 ID: 85f7d3
File 148721164424.jpg - (3.61MB , 3120x4160 , IMG_20170215_203153964.jpg )
102794
Aannnddd here is the other side. Not that familiar with gas operated shotguns to know if something is glaringly wrong frankly.
>> No. 102795 ID: 85f7d3
File 148721298621.jpg - (2.54MB , 3120x4160 , IMG_20170215_213634381.jpg )
102795
I removed the trigger group and nothing seems significantly amiss.
>> No. 102796 ID: 85f7d3
File 148721301953.jpg - (2.84MB , 3120x4160 , IMG_20170215_213719051.jpg )
102796
>> No. 102800 ID: f2172d
Can you remove the bolt and post some pics?
>> No. 102801 ID: 85f7d3
>>102800

So I don't think I can remove the bolt - I haven't been able to remove the barrel and I don't think I can do so unless the weapon is in battery.
>> No. 102802 ID: 85f7d3
>>102801

The bolt does move however - there is about 3/4 of an inch of travel on the bolt body itself. The bolt handle doesn't move (which is connected to the action bar).
>> No. 102803 ID: 19518e
File 148723167179.jpg - (866.16KB , 2488x1572 , c9xnl5i6.jpg )
102803
This is supposed to stick out that way, right?
>> No. 102835 ID: 85f7d3
>>102803

Yes, it's pushed out by a spring (moves freely) and based on the diagram linked below I think it's #21, shell stop.

http://cdn.wellnessarticles.net/2016/11/07/mossberg-9200-shotgun-parts-diagram-l-f849ab15dbe53da5.jpg
>> No. 102836 ID: 19518e
>>102835
Ah right, figured I should check as I have an 870 clone where the action bar would wedge its way out from the carrier (bolt slide) and seize up the gun, looked a bit like the picture. From what I can see, you might need to try lightly tapping the bolt/bolt handle with a rubber mallet and see if you can get it unstuck so you can take it apart. It might have debris or something damaged/broken in the bolt (like a firing pin retention pin that has walked out, or even a chunk of firing pin stuck somewhere).

My 590A1 locked up when the firing pin retaining pin sheared in half, but luckily it was wedged while the bolt was half open so I could take it apart. Perhaps something similar is going on here, so getting it apart might be the only way.
>> No. 102837 ID: 19518e
>>102836
>action bar would wedge its way out from the carrier (bolt slide) and seize up the gun, looked a bit like the picture

From the parts diagram, I know that issue wouldn't really be possible as the action bars are built into the bolt slide. There are many similarities to my semi-auto shotgun, and I'm still going with a problem in the bolt assembly that we can't really see properly without taking apart.
>> No. 102841 ID: 8d4943
>>102836
>My 590A1 locked up when the firing pin retaining pin sheared in half

The hammer cam pin in my serbu sheared in half once. It was a bitch getting the old pin out. Also, $3 part but $10 shipping.
>> No. 102842 ID: 19518e
>>102841
>Also, $3 part but $10 shipping
>$10 shipping

I thought that was a canuckshit thing :/
>> No. 102844 ID: 85f7d3
>>102837

So, at this point I'm not sure how to move forward. I would like to remove the barrel to get at the bolt, but AFAIK the barrel can't be removed while the action is out of battery, is that correct?
>> No. 102845 ID: 6057a8
>>102844
From what I've seen of that kind of design of semi-auto, the thicker chamber area interferes with the action bars unless the action is closed. You could try to see if they can wiggle out together, sometimes getting the barrel to play forwards and backwards can help you free up the action just enough to close, or even to remove all the things. If it doesn't move with light percussive persuasion, you might have to bring it to a gunsmith, but I have a sneaking suspicion he'll just take out a slightly larger plastic hammer, close the action with it, and unfuck it after it's apart.

You can try bumping the action bars/piston or seeing if the barrel has any wiggle room, as long as you're not chimping out on it and using leather-wrapped hammer or plastic hammer for your diagnostic drumming and disassembly, I honestly can't imagine you'd do more damage if you're just tapping at it to try and close the action. Sometimes a surprising amount of force is required (muzzle assembly pin for SVT-40 requires full force 16oz ball peen to even get it to move a hair) without anything being wrong.

Regardless, there's no shame in being cautious, if you're concerned about damaging it further at this point, at least getting it looked at by a competent gunsmith could save you headaches in the long run; internet diagnosis or advice can only go so far. As I have no first hand experience with that particular firearm, I can't recommend much in good conscience aside from getting it looked at by someone IRL that knows that model.
>> No. 102846 ID: 85f7d3
>>102845

Thanks, I appreciate the input. When I have a minute I'm going to grab a rubber hammer and see if I can move the action bar at all. I'll also let some oil soak into where I *think* the action is bound up to see if that will help. I'll report back.
>> No. 102847 ID: 6057a8
>>102846
No prob. Seeing how slow OPchan is, it wouldn't hurt to leave the thread up for a while longer before doing much more than oil and a bit of light hammer time. Maybe a 9200-or-similar owner will check in and provide insight.
>> No. 102848 ID: f2172d
>>102847
Send up the Meplat signal?
>> No. 102849 ID: 19518e
>>102848
Meplat, BOOF, hell there's quite a few OPERATORs and regular trips here that know quite a lot and could probably help out, just a matter of playing the waiting game. Not sure if Fratton is on a schedule.
>> No. 102850 ID: 85f7d3
>>102849

I mean, sooner rather than later but it's not something that needs a 2 day turn-around. I'm willing to oil it and let it sit if it means I avoid buggering it up worse than it currently is.

Dear Meplat, who art likely driving around surplus jeeps, hallowed be thy name...
>> No. 102868 ID: 3f5192
>>102847
Shoot me an email, I'll provide you with my FFL. Send it in and I can get it fixed up if you want.

It's likely a peened or fractured locking block or one of the gas rings has warped around one another. Does the area the bolt locks into on the barrel show any strange wear or damage? Does the bolt have any movement separate from the bolt carrier or vise versa?

Either way, without having it in front of me I can't really diagnose it. I do know that the gas system on those with all of those interlocking rings that need to be properly aligned caused problems. Perhaps it was assembled incorrectly?

If you can firmly tap (NOT BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF) the action bars with a nylon hammer do so. If you can get the action bars off the magazine tube you can inspect the gas rings.
>> No. 102878 ID: 791f24
>Mossberg lifetime warranty
So ur afraid to tell ur gf's dad that u broke his gun (which you prob took without asking)? Call Mossberg and maybe they'll still hook you up with a free repair if you send them nudes of ur gf.
>> No. 103117 ID: 85f7d3
File 148996480699.jpg - (3.43MB , 3120x4160 , IMG_20170319_185418860_TOP.jpg )
103117
UPDATE

So for a few weeks there I would apply some CLP in the morning before I went to work, and then would gently tap the bolt handle and the op rods when I got home from work. My theory was basically "well hopefully this will work its way into whatever is causing the problem and loosen up the gun." I likely spent far too long doing this, but I figured since I had the time why not. Eventually I took a mallet, sat the gun on it's stock, and gave it a good solid WHACK. The barrel came flying off towards me and the rest of the gun nearly fell over. I'm not 100% certain what happened, but I think the op rod snagged on the barrel. It was pretty fouled under there and and I wonder if that was the culprit. In any event, I was able to take the gun apart, clean it slightly, and then put it back together into good working order. Lesson learned, switching to inertia guns for good.

>>102868

Thanks for your offer Boof, but given that the gun isn't going to used hard and will likely be sold in the not-too-distant-future, I'm going to treat this as a fluke. None of the surfaces you mentioned appeared worn or damaged.

>>102878

"So ur afraid to tell ur [Fiance's] dad that u [temporarily jammed] his gun (which you prob [borrowed with his full knowledge and blessing])? Call Mossberg and maybe they'll still hook you up with a free repair if you send them nudes of ur [fiance]."

Uh... thanks for the advice friendo, I'm good.


Pic is related - gun reassembled along with my VZ 24.
>> No. 103118 ID: 19518e
File 4pewpew.webm - (2.82MB )
103118
>>103117
Glad you got it freed up. It could be a build up of crud at the piston ring over the magazine tube, what does that area look like?

>going to inertia
Are you a heavier fellow or a thinner, lighter guy? Definitely try before you buy. With a gas gun, you get a lot more flexibility in what load you can use with what shooter is sitting behind it. Webm shows a bit why gas shotguns like me, as preventing them from moving around allows the action to cycle without having to "catch up" with the rest of the firearm. I've had to tune this particular 12 gauge to half the gas it was set up to cycle normally, because it was cycling a little too hard.

There's not much to adjust on an inertia gun, not really like a piston shotgun. I've tried a few inertia guns that simply didn't cycle with me; the guns need to move back during recoil a little bit so the inertia block can compress the spring that'll unlock the bolt and cycle the action. If the guns aren't allowed to move back a little during recoil, the gun short-strokes. Even with slugs the actions would only open halfway, most wouldn't even chuck empies out.
>> No. 103120 ID: 85f7d3
>>103118

I'm a bigger guy (inb4 4u) - 6'2" and 245lbs. I have a friend with a Stoeger M3000 and I have shot that a bit, the recoil impulse was different than with the 9200, but it wasn't altogether more severe.

I don't have that much experience shooting semi auto guns. I like the Stoeger given the as-far-as-I'm-aware Benelli technology available at the pricepoint. Short term I'm looking for a gun I can use for trap shooting. Longer term I would like to get into 3 gun and have heard that the Stoeger is a good starter gun for that use.

That said, I'm not making that purchase anytime soon (double stack 9mm comes first), and I'm open to suggestions and feedback.
>> No. 103121 ID: 19518e
  Damn that thing does look good, as long as it runs in your arms that's what counts.

With a vent rib and choke tubes, it'll do fine on the skeet range.
>> No. 103123 ID: 9dcda2
>>103120 >>103121

We've got a couple of Stoeger M3000's in our 3-gun club. They seem to work pretty well. The Mossberg JM Pros on the other hand shit the bed left and right.

Myself and 3 others have Beretta 1301's which run pretty well. (Some ammo problems on hot and humid days.) Then there's the odd Benelli M2 which runs fine.
>> No. 103124 ID: 19518e
>>103123
>The Mossberg JM Pros on the other hand shit the bed left and right.

What kind of failures were they?
>> No. 103126 ID: 1519ac
>>103123
>1301
I've been looking at these lately. What's a hot and humid day to you? Would you recommend them?
>> No. 103129 ID: 9dcda2
File 1301_jam_webm_1.webm - (1.41MB , 1301 jam webm_1.webm )
103129
>>103124
The most recent failure was the fire control mech. Trigger got REALLY heavy. (He bought a 1301 two days later.) I don't remember specifics, but I would say roughly half of the guns have some kind of feeding or ejecting problems. (With Walmart bulk pack hunting birdshot.)

>>103126
> What's a hot and humid day to you?
When my safety glasses fog up, and I wipe them on my shirt and they get wetter. I remember being drenched in sweat the whole day. It was in the mid 80s with lots of humidity. I looked up the historical weather for that day, but there's no data for nearby locations. Not like deep south humid, but still unpleasant. Everyone's shotguns were fucking up. The tube magazine stopped working on one M3K. (How's that happen?)

> Would you recommend them?
I'd buy the same gun again. 21" or 24" barrel is your call. I got the 21" and with an extension can get 8 in the tube. I have two complaints about the gun. First, the grip part of the stock is too far away from the trigger, as if it were designed for people with large hands. The other is the barrel rib, it's the usual Raised Rib, which means I always miss high, unless I deliberately aim for a 6 o'clock hold.

http://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/guns/2015/10/which-these-3-shotgun-rib-styles-best-you
>> No. 103130 ID: 9dcda2
  The entry to the magazine tube could use some work. Quad loads are tough but doable.
>> No. 103131 ID: 9dcda2
  >>103130
The first shotgun load went well. The second, I dunno what the fuck happened. The lifter was stuck in the down position and I couldn't get shells into the magazine.
>> No. 103133 ID: 92fb9d
>>103129
Not sure how or why, but when I hit your webm to watch it, my phone instead displayed a webm of Lana Rain dressed as Asuka sucking on two dildoes. I was confused, but pleased.

From the actual shooting webm, looks like it didn't feed and then failed to release a fresh round. Weird. Any idea what it could have caught on for the feeding stoppage?

Mossbergs failing with cheap ammo usually ends up being a rough chamber/feeding thing, but the trigger bits fucking up is new to me, I've always been spoiled with metal trigger assemblies due to my 590.
>> No. 103134 ID: 9dcda2
File 149011688215.jpg - (104.73KB , 600x600 , 1301 jam.jpg )
103134
>>103133
I hate it when that happens. I don't think the dick on a stick was really into it.

While I was shooting I didn't look into it, because timer, but watching the video now it looks like the shell tried to feed but caught on the entrance to the chamber. It looks a little mangled in the stills.

Just racking the bolt does not release a round from the magazine tube, so that's the second time running the bolt. You have to drop the hammer with the bolt forward to release a shell.

1. Round doesn't chamber.
2. Rack action. (no shell released from magazine)
3. Pull trigger, click, shell released.
4. Rack action, shell chambered.

So if this happened again...

A. Pull the bolt back a little then push forward to try to chamber the shell.
B. Rack it, hit shell release button, rack again.
>> No. 103141 ID: 19518e
>>103134
Ahhh right, that's probably handy for switching to a slug but malfunction clearing then needs an extra step.

I see, I see.
[Return] [Entire Thread] [Last 50 posts]


Delete post []
Password  
Report post
Reason