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Patches and Stickers for sale here

File 149568711168.jpg - (3.00MB , 4032x3024 , 20170525_003644.jpg )
104036 No. 104036 ID: 815268
Haters gonna hate
Expand all images
>> No. 104037 ID: 6b56b6
Not a Remington so no hate from me.

I kinda want to shoot a 3 gun match with one of those while wearing a leather jacket and a pair of gargoyles.
>> No. 104038 ID: 813f6b
File 149570366119.jpg - (87.13KB , 800x600 , ithaca_shorty.jpg )
How's the fit & finish? I'm not a big fan of Mossberg/Maverick because of it.
Otherwise, they obviously work well.

Too bad that SBS'ing them costs so much money. I really wanted to make a SBS Ithaca M37, but that turned out to be a pain in the ass to accomplish.

Trying to get my hands on a new full length (18.5" or 20") Benelli M3 Tactical now.
>> No. 104039 ID: 815268
It's good, especially for a $400 shotgun. Good, even parkerizing. The slide is a little rattley, but the action locks up right.

The only real negatives are that the trigger guard is some kind of plastic or polymer, and there doesn't seem to be a good way to attach a light without spending $300+ on a Surefire slide.
>> No. 104068 ID: 804d8c
File 149607904152.jpg - (129.10KB , 640x480 , 1466894129213.jpg )
they always will.
>> No. 104081 ID: 4231b1
Get a OPSol Mini-Clip

Then Aguila 12ga 1.75" Birdshot, Buckshot, or Slug Mini Shells
And put 9 shells in it.
>> No. 104082 ID: 813f6b
File 149651208153.jpg - (26.75KB , 306x640 , twoslugs.jpg )

Are there any shotties that -reliably- run aguila mini shells without modification?
>> No. 104083 ID: 56190f
File 149651628757.jpg - (143.58KB , 1910x1075 , bullets, shotgun Aguila minishells 1.jpg )
But it's the pumps and autos that have reported problems with them.
Aguila Proves Good Things Come In Small Packages https://youtu.be/EUBykQ1sx94
Aguila Ammunition is the only manufacturer to make a minishell with a length of 1 3/4". Available in 7 1/2 shot, Buckshot and Slug.
>> No. 104084 ID: 56190f
  Mossberg + Aguila mini shell + adapter = solved https://youtu.be/zsiyLkZtW-E
An introduction to my adapter I designed and had made that allows Aguila mini shells to function reliably in a Mossberg 500 series pump 12 gauge shotgun

Aguila 12 gauge 1" Minishells https://youtu.be/zi2sjO7yH3g
>> No. 104085 ID: 56190f
  Serbu Super Shorty with mini shells https://youtu.be/ZyRLMOsEJkI
Testing out the Aguila mini shells in the Serbu Super Shorty Shotgun. They don't chamber reliably unless you put the weapon at an extreme cant when extracting and chambering. The shells are so small they tumble around.
>> No. 104086 ID: 56190f
File 149651763043.jpg - (385.52KB , 2448x3264 , bullets, shotgun Aguila Minishells slug, buckshot,.jpg )
Aguila Minishells - slug, buckshot, & birdshot.
>> No. 104087 ID: 56190f
File 149651765388.jpg - (559.02KB , 3264x2448 , bullets, shotgun Aguila Minishells slug, buckshot,.jpg )
>> No. 104092 ID: da39fa
I own an (apparently discontinued? There was a lawsuit or something, I'm not sure but it's not for sale anymore, it's a weird situation) ATI TACSX2 which is one of those Turkish-made semiauto shotguns and when I was able to get my hands on some Aguila minishells (birdshot) it cycled them reliably (this was after the break-in period). That was only two boxes though, I just can't get minishells locally.

I've read that Winchester 1300s can reliably feed the rounds, as well as 1897s.
>> No. 105423 ID: 815268
I have one. No mini-shells yet tho. I also got a Mesa Tactical 6 shot aluminum side saddle too.
>> No. 105480 ID: f09958
File 150585004720.jpg - (2.16MB , 4161x1897 , shotgun German HK CAWS Close Assault Weapons Syste.jpg )
HK & Olin designed a long-range military shotgun to fire tungsten steel buckshot, but it did not work out.
By 1982, the Naval Surface Warfare Center in Crane, Ind., had taken over what was by then known as the Close Assault Weapon System, or CAWS. Much of the original logic for the new weapon was getting lost along the way. The CAWS requirements had largely dispensed with plans for a multi-purpose weapon. Ammunition development focused on trying to build pellet-filled shells that would be accurate at longer ranges. These new rounds would make a troop armed with the shotgun less of a liability to his comrades on a traditional battlefield, but no one had ever really expected a soldier to use the weapon in that manner anyway. “I certainly wouldn’t want an automatic shotgun,” retired Army Col. Charles Beckwith, founder of Delta Force, told Schemmer in an interview. “I’d have to have four boys along just to carry the ammunition!”

Perhaps worst of all, the whole thing was becoming a political nightmare for everyone involved. “It is important that JSSAP show some development success [on CAWS] or lose credibility as a research and development vehicle,” Ray Thorkildsen, an ordnance expert in the Office of the Secretary of Defense, wrote the same year. Thorkildsen wanted Crane to hurry up and build something. With Childers’ in-house project scrapped, private companies were eager to scoop up the now open contract. http://americanshootingjournal.com/combat-shotguns-identity-crisis/
- Heckler and Koch and Olin Close Assault Weapons System (CAWS) prototype.
>> No. 105481 ID: f09958
File 150585035624.jpg - (87.34KB , 1000x518 , shotgun German HK CAWS Olin-Winchester belted bras.jpg )
Heckler & Koch Close Assault Weapon System (CAWS)

In the early 1980s the US military’s Joint Service Small Arms Program (JSSAP) launched the Close Assault Weapon System program. The CAWS program evolved from several other efforts, including RHINO and Multipurpose Individual Weapon System (MIWS) to create a new combat shotgun. CAWS aimed to create a shotgun with greater range and more firepower than a conventional shotgun which could engage targets within 100m to 150m. The weapon was to be used in anti-area, material and personnel roles using a variety of specialised shotgun cartridge loads. The need for a CAWS was based on both British experience during the Malayan Emergency and American experiences during the Vietnam War when shotguns had played an important tactical role during close range engagements.

While Carroll Childers, who had developed the experimental Special Operations Weapon (SOW) during the Vietnam war, helmed the initial project at the Naval Surface Warfare Center. Childers intention with the SOW was to enable magazine reloading and increase the shotgun’s handiness and lethality. However, by the early 1980s Childers designs had been shelved and in an effort to progress with the program JSSAP invited private manufacturers to submit designs. The CAWS program saw the focus shift towards a fully automatic shotgun with improved range and cartridge load capabilities. The AAI Corporation submitted a design as did Heckler & Koch. http://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/158905311179/heckler-koch-close-assault-weapon-system/embed
>> No. 105482 ID: f09958
File 150585052881.png - (282.57KB , 1280x592 , shotgun German HK CAWS Close Assault Weapons Syste.png )
Heckler & Koch partnered with Winchester/Olin to develop the weapon’s ammunition, the Chamberlain Manufacturing Corporation was also involved in ammunition development. The CAWS chambered in a belted brass 19.5mm x 76mm or 12 gauge cartridges with a variety of loads including led and tungsten buckshot (see image #6). Although initial loadings included flechettes which proved to be unstable and inaccurate (see image #5). H&K sales material boasted that the CAWS’ tungsten buck shot could penetrate mild steel plate at 150m and that lead loads could penetrate ¾ inch pine boards out to 150m. Winchester/Olin were also developing fragmentation, incendiary and explosive rounds for various mission profiles and uses.
>> No. 105483 ID: f09958
File 150585061189.png - (617.63KB , 1280x520 , shotgun German HK CAWS tungsten buckshot 2.png )
While the shells were initially made from brass with a belt at the base, later cartridges were plastic with aluminium bases to reduce weight. Winchester/Olin designed the CAWS’ rounds so they would not chamber in conventional 12 gauge shotguns as a safety precaution due to the round’s high pressure propellant.

The H&K CAWS itself shared some of its ergonomics with the advanced G11 rifle and was fully ambidextrous - with a top mounted cocking handle and adjustable left or right ejection. However, the shotgun was a true bullpup with its magazine positioned behind the pistol grip and used a more conventional action, feeding from a 10-round box magazine. At least one example was outfitted with a vertical foregrip. The H&K CAWS was a select-fire weapon capable of both semi and full automatic with a 240 round per minute rate of fire. Iterations of the weapon appear to have had different barrel lengths with 18 inch and 27 inch barrels offered during the development cycle.
>> No. 105484 ID: f09958
File 150585064595.png - (730.11KB , 1280x625 , shotgun German HK CAWS flechettes 1.png )
H&K offered the shotgun with both standard iron sights and an optic similar to the G11′s, both mounted to the carrying handle. The ergonomics of the CAWS, like the G11, left much to be desired. While the boxy polymer outer shell was futuristic in appearance it was uncomfortable to carry. Some sales material suggests the CAWS weighed 7.89lbs unloaded, while other sources from 1986 suggest up to 9.5lbs unloaded. This was well in excess of the JSSAP’s original specification for a weapon that weighed no more than 8.5lbs unloaded.

The CAWS was developed by H&K engineers led by Helmut Weldle, who had been involved with many of the company’s major designs including the VP70 pistol and later the G36. Weldle’s design was recoil operated (using a spring and brake system) with a locked breech, he filed a patent protecting his design in December 1985, with a priority date back to November 1982.

While a number of companies, including AAI, entered designs into the Close Assault Weapon System program, the US military abandoned the trials program in the late 1980s when none of the designs, including H&K’s, performed adequately.
>> No. 105488 ID: f0fb5d
Am I missing costs above and beyond the $200 tax stamp? I had been looking into a Mossberg Shockwave as a way to get into the NFA world for ~$600 just by buying the gun for ~$400, filing your Form 1 and paying the $200, then attaching a standard Mossberg buttstock. What am I missing?
>> No. 105489 ID: f0fb5d
GG&G has you covered.


$30 gets you a flashlight mount.
>> No. 105497 ID: f5c3ed
File 150586873154.jpg - (2.87MB , 1744x3101 , magpul-inforce WML.jpg )
+1 for anything GG&G. I usually don't stick with one company's accessories but I keep going back to them time and time again.
However! I prefer a light mounted on the pump itself instead of the barrel/tube.
>> No. 105524 ID: c3b8cf

>What am I missing?
Other costs for the NFA process (other than the tax stamp itself) I can think of are for engraving, passport photos, and fingerprint cards. Trust/corp cost, if you go that route.
>> No. 105526 ID: bf333d
File 150592636736.jpg - (79.47KB , 640x480 , ShotgunSmiley.jpg )
>Am I missing costs above and beyond the $200 tax stamp?

Well percentually, that tax stamp is a significant increase when you consider the cost of the shotgun/AOW itself?

But I'm a eurotard. My country doesn't even have the concept of what an SBS is. So that's no problem. The problem is getting a suitable shotgun and then cutting it down legally. After having a gunsmith cut it down, it needs to be re-proofed and registered in its new length. This in work hours and paperwork costs more than the shotgun itself.

As a result, I abandoned that idea & am trying to import a Benelli M3 Tactical instead.
>> No. 105543 ID: f0fb5d
They used to have one that replaced the existing stock with one that has a cutout where it did mount a light on the slide itself.

Not sure why they discontinued it but I have one on my 590A1. I guess if I got a Shockwave I could switch the pumps but I'd lose the strap.
>> No. 105666 ID: c6a94d
File 15070914949.jpg - (184.10KB , 800x533 , shotgun Canadian Canuck Regulator 14-inch barrel, .jpg )
Found this:
Canuck Regulator pump action 12 Ga shotgun with 14″ barrel, 5 round capacity, and 3 mobil (Beretta style) chokes, all this for just $339.95 plus tax and shipping. They don’t get much more compact or fun than these ones. Action is based on the Remington 870 and most accessories are compatible. http://tandtarms.com/shotguns/
>> No. 105667 ID: c6a94d
File 150709171071.jpg - (1.69MB , 2592x1728 , shotgun Canadian Canuck Defender 14-inch barrel, 5.jpg )
Canuck Defender Pump Action Shotguns from just $299.95!
First up, the wood stocked Canuck Defender. 5 shot tube magazine, 12 ga, 3″, 14″ barrel, Aluminum Receiver and walnut stock. Overall length is 34-1/4″. They even come with 3 mobil chokes (Beretta style). $350 plus tax and $25 shipping. http://tandtarms.com/canuck-defender-pump-action-shotguns/
>> No. 105668 ID: c6a94d
File 150709181890.jpg - (1.79MB , 2592x1728 , shotgun Canadian Canuck Defender 14-inch barrel, 5.jpg )
>> No. 105669 ID: c6a94d
File 150709266076.jpg - (368.37KB , 2048x1536 , shotgun US Winchester 1887 lever-action bootleg sh.jpg )
>> No. 105720 ID: 3f7131
File 150820328014.jpg - (1.81MB , 2048x1536 , 1.jpg )
Caved and bought a shockwave too. Threw a (cut down) forend from Numrich and an old SKS sling. A leather carrying case is the next task.
>> No. 105721 ID: 8c18eb
File 15082158861.jpg - (87.93KB , 1800x672 , shotgun Spanish Holland copy Ithaca Auto & Bur.jpg )
Nice, but could you get a wooden pistol grip so it matches with the slide?
- Double Barreled 20 Gauge Spanish "AUTO- BURGLAR" Shotgun
This is an excellent Spanish copy of the original Ithaca double barreled "Auto & Burglar" shotgun. This weapon is not a sawed-off shotgun, but a true, factory produced short barreled shotgun marketed to homeowners and travelers in need of compact firepower. These have also been found to be in use by bank guards and armored car operators. This weapon has 10 1/2 barrels with smooth steel rib marked on top "ARMAS ERBI S.C.I. ELGOIBAR, MADE IN SPAIN". With the right barrel marked "MADE FOR HOLLAND FIREARMS, INC. HOUSTON TEXAS" with the left side marked "20 gauge 3" Chambers". The underside of each barrel has the standard "EBIR" Spanish factory proof and firing marks. It is fitted with a standard short forearm and pistol grip stock, both checkered on the sides. https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/56/3553/holland-firearms-inc-auto-burglar
>> No. 105722 ID: 8c18eb
File 150821593093.jpg - (233.25KB , 1800x672 , shotgun Spanish Holland copy Ithaca Auto & Bur.jpg )
>> No. 105724 ID: 780eb6
I have a chunk of hickory in the basement I've been kicking around for that. Not sure how close I can match it though. I do have plans for a leather tool roll style case for it when time permits.
>> No. 105726 ID: 8c18eb
File 150828551954.jpg - (241.06KB , 1023x821 , shotgun holster 1.jpg )
Please post pictures when you're done.
>> No. 105742 ID: 19518e
That grip makes me nervous. If it failed, it would probably fail along the grain and send itself into your hand and wrist.

I think using a piece of wood that would naturally have a curve to it might be a better idea, just so the grain doesn't literally form a spear if it were to snap.
>> No. 105743 ID: 2c9a4e

I know that the rule when contacting BATFE is not to ask questions unless you know in advance what the answer is going to be.

But I've got to know. if these little non-sawed-off, non-SBS, non-AOW pump shotguns are okay if they're regulated as handguns, what's their opinion on putting one of those "arm braces" on one?

Also, if I wanted anything like this it would be a range toy strictly, so I would be thinking about a conversion I saw in a gun magazine many years back, of a side-by-side "rabbit ears" shotgun with exposed hammers, which had had the grip frame from an Italian Peacemaker clone attached to the rear of the receiver and a very pretty plow-handle style wooden grip.

It seems to me that long ago I also saw a shortened Ithaca 37 with a plow-handle style pistol grip but I can't find a picture.
>> No. 105753 ID: 8c18eb
File 15084025094.jpg - (3.45MB , 5184x3456 , Russian AKM w shovel handle buttstock 1.jpg )
Something like this or something like spade grips on M2 Browning heavy machine-guns?
>> No. 105766 ID: 8c18eb
File 150840268752.jpg - (4.07MB , 5184x3456 , Russian AKM w shovel handle buttstock 2.jpg )
Someone has been playing Fallout in real life...
>> No. 105779 ID: 8c18eb
File 150840282272.jpg - (123.23KB , 1200x800 , US M2 _50 BMG spade grips 1.jpg )
Spade grips on a shotgun would be interesting.
>> No. 105782 ID: 8c18eb
File 150840324892.jpg - (139.01KB , 1024x768 , US AR-15 w spade grips that attaches to the buffer.jpg )
Spade grips that attaches to the buffer tube of AR-15 rifles.
Interesting but hideous.
>> No. 105785 ID: da39fa
File 15084645632.jpg - (14.90KB , 400x400 , 452ad6_04ac6e85311741f0b9f05ad1f3035c05~mv2_d_2718.jpg )
They're not regulated as handguns, they're "Firearms," which is a legally distinct category, and yes, Sig braces are OK on them. Black Aces Tactical sells guns like this that are 100% non-NFA.
>> No. 105928 ID: 3f7131
File 151042192831.jpg - (1.57MB , 2048x1025 , v2.jpg )
Don't have time to make the tool roll yet, but I'm going to call the gun itself done.

- Kydex heat shield off ebay. I had to mold a bottom kydex clamp because the stock one won't accommodate the thicker diameter of the shorter barrel.
- Sam brown button front sight. Kydex heat shield covers the original bead. Just drilled a hole in the head shield, screwed it in and used red threadlocker.
- Ribbed foregrip. Bought an original 590 one off Numrich. Cut off a few ribs from the center with the bandsaw, sanded and glued together. You can't even see the seam inside one of the cutouts.
- Single point sling plate
- Cobbled together single point sling. Made a leather pad, 1.5" nylon strapping, Chicago screws and a triglide. Not super happy with it but had the bits on hand. Probably will replace the nylon with leather next time I get to Tandy.
- Friction tape on the grip. I tried twice to make a nicer wood handle and failed twice. I am not a wood worker. If I ever find a cheap 590 wood buttstock I may use that as my starting point and cut it down.
- Side saddle shell holder off Amazon.
>> No. 105929 ID: 3f7131
File 151042208189.jpg - (2.48MB , 4032x3024 , 1.jpg )
Kydex part I had to make for the heat shield. No trick to it other than cut a rectangle, heat it well with a heatgun and manhandle it into shape. Once it's cooled hit it with a Dremel until you can accommodate the cap and top screws.
>> No. 105930 ID: 3f7131
File 151042225574.jpg - (1.87MB , 4032x2674 , 3.jpg )
I got pretty lucky and could hide my cuts between ribs and didn't even have to refinish it.
>> No. 105931 ID: 19518e
I like it, but is Kydex okay for this kind of thing? I've gotten shotgun barrels pretty damn hot...
>> No. 105937 ID: a847d6
Haven't a clue but I guess we'll see. Also considering the kind of shotgun I don't anticipate putting as many rounds down range as my more conventional shotguns. If it doesn't survive I won't be too heartbroken.
>> No. 105938 ID: 19518e
>Also considering the kind of shotgun I don't anticipate putting as many rounds down range as my more conventional shotguns.
>as many

Looking at how it's a bird's head versus a much more comfortable pistol-type grip I can understand that.
>> No. 105939 ID: 815268
I actually prefer the birdshead grip to a standard pistol grip only set up.
>> No. 105940 ID: 19518e
I see quite a lot of people sharing your view, but none of them seem to enjoy shooting buckshot, slugs, and more with bird's head.

I don't like bird's head, but I routinely shoot boxes and boxes of slugs, buckshot, turkey magnums using pistol grips. So I can't say I understand the bird's head thing very much... Only the most horrendous 3" 2oz turkey maximum-load ever got a sting in the hands, as much as I can tolerate a box of those, I can't imagine shooting even one with a bird's head grip. The way I see it, pistol grip is pretty much like palm-striking a punching bag, it's incredibly strong at taking impacts.

Might be gripping technique. Might just be hand differences, the shape of a grip from one hand to another probably magnifies the physical differences between people exponentially as recoil energy increases. Might also be a combination of the two. Perhaps further testing is required any excuse to fire ye olde handgonnes. I'll have to track down a bird's head grip though...
>> No. 105942 ID: 815268
The birdshead, for me, seems to distribute the recoil throughout my hand, wrist, and forearm, vs a PGO set up where it seems all the recoil is absorbed by the web of my hand and my wrist.

That's just how it feels to me. But yeah, it still leaves you sore to shoot 70 high brass 00 loads in 45 minutes lol.
>> No. 105944 ID: 19518e
File 151070879374.gif - (1.57MB , 300x200 , t255487_1305770957905.gif )
I was about to write stuff about grip technique but fucking shit ammo up here is stupid expensive, literally nothing under a buck fifty per shell. Who cares about grips when it's the wallet that cries mercy before the hands.

When I track down some shotguns with burbface grips or PGO I'll save up my pennies (all of them) and have a good day making the berms noticeably heavier. It might be a while but I'll probably post the results in this thread.
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