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Patches and Stickers for sale here

File 15024674814.jpg - (12.79KB , 204x261 , Shadow_Zero.jpg )
105129 No. 105129 ID: 19518e
So I've been shopping around for a CZ pistol for a while now, but some of the finer points escape me between a few of the models. There's the Shadow, but it's different than the SP01 Shadow, both are different compared to the Shadowline, and so on. There's the Shadow Tac II, then stuff like the 75 Tactical Sport, and then Czechmate, so what the hell is this clusterfuck about? Their website isn't much help being slow, messy, disorganized, and not exactly easy to compare model to model.

I'm particularly interested in the Shadow and Shadow 2 pistols, and I am planning on installing an SAO flat trigger into whatever CZ pistol ends up being chosen. It'll be for range pew pew so practicality isn't exactly high on the list and I have no trouble with racking in-frame CZ slides. I would appreciate any info on these things, especially shit that isn't exactly obvious or often covered in reviews/product descriptions.
Expand all images
>> No. 105130 ID: bf333d
File 150247322545.jpg - (37.08KB , 800x695 , 1454613192173.jpg )
I'd suggest taking a long hard look at the Tactical Sports series instead of the Shadows.

As I understand:
- Shadow: basic dynamic shooting pistols. Speed is paramount, but less aimed at pure accuracy. The fiber sights are thick and easy to pick up, but not as accurate.
- Tactical Sports: match pistols. Should be good for bullseye as well as dynamic shooting disciplines.
- Czechmate: all out race gun. The ultimate in dynamic shooting idiocy. :)

Then there's the "orange" happy horseshit. I think it's silly, but they're using orange to denote the fact it's custom gunsmithed (fitted parts & tuning instead of series production).
>> No. 105131 ID: 19518e
Honestly I think they're all more accurate than I am, but I would probably be changing out the sights regardless, as machining a spot for a pistol optic could be in the works.
>> No. 105132 ID: bf333d
File 15024752484.jpg - (41.31KB , 600x424 , multi_optic_mount__sdw5222logo.jpg )
>as machining a spot for a pistol optic could be in the works.

Slide mounted, you mean?

I hear CZs are not optimal for that. The internals of the slide mean you don't have much meat to work with. Possible, but probably not optimal.
>> No. 105133 ID: 19518e
I should be able to work with that.
>> No. 105135 ID: 13f512
File 150248846188.jpg - (163.46KB , 960x720 , 15338812_10208176465948600_2059689787670301333_n.jpg )

eh, I'm in some CZ forums and it is done literally all the time. No issues whatsoever.

RAMI unrelated
>> No. 105136 ID: 19518e
That's comforting. I have a cheap Burris Fastfire II I'd probably throw on there for giggles until it shits its guts out, do you know if the holes, threads, and cutout dimensions are around (maybe in a CAD file) to see if the Burris mounting cutouts would interfere with the actually decent optic I'd mount on it after?
>> No. 105137 ID: 13f512

I'll ask around.
>> No. 105138 ID: bf333d
File 150253222336.jpg - (136.63KB , 1000x750 , img_6527.jpg )
>eh, I'm in some CZ forums and it is done literally all the time. No issues whatsoever.

Didn't say it was impossible and literally posted a picture to illustrate that it was indeed possible? Saying it's no issue is stretching it however.

I'm just saying there's less meat to the slide than some competitors and that you need to be far more careful not to ruin the internals, especially if you intend to do it yourself and not by someone that's doing this on a daily basis. You're also forced to destroy the standard dovetail, meaning you either lose the rear iron sight or have to find another alternative way to make a new one.
>> No. 105139 ID: 13f512
File 150254400017.jpg - (112.34KB , 959x695 , 17021837_10212968273660413_6786840899938236166_n.jpg )

Potentially I suppose, but it's done by individuals as well as companies often enough that it's not a huge risk.
>> No. 105140 ID: 13f512
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>> No. 105141 ID: 13f512
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>> No. 105142 ID: 13f512
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>> No. 105143 ID: 13f512
File 150254407095.jpg - (142.16KB , 947x960 , 20375786_10214106820570807_7705141260287501507_n.jpg )
Probably not what you're looking for, but the P-10C is pretty neat by all accounts.
>> No. 105144 ID: 13f512
File 150254418093.jpg - (944.99KB , 2048x1412 , 20369951_10214106819410778_8911522280653131563_o.jpg )

I didn't say that you said it was impossible. You said it wasn't optimal. I'm saying that it's perfectly fine and if you want an optic on your CZ there is nothing stopping you.
>> No. 105145 ID: 13f512
File 150254439699.jpg - (183.55KB , 960x960 , 18520006_10209509311555061_4748632381475704583_n.jpg )
>> No. 105146 ID: 13f512
File 150254443729.jpg - (224.48KB , 1200x822 , 20451762_10155705410713969_1489938694460125966_o.jpg )
I don't even.
>> No. 105147 ID: 13f512
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>> No. 105148 ID: 13f512
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>> No. 105149 ID: 13f512
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>> No. 105150 ID: 13f512
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>> No. 105151 ID: 13f512
File 150254469533.jpg - (703.35KB , 2048x1152 , 17834835_10212582207378969_7184371876365924320_o.jpg )
This triggers the belgian
>> No. 105152 ID: 13f512
File 150254536024.jpg - (161.65KB , 960x720 , 17424923_10212382265137920_1831820722946982339_n.jpg )
Anyway, some of these are rear sight mounts which I don't think is what you want to do, but is also a possibility.

tl;dr cutting into a firearm slide, know where the important bits are, which I'm sure you'll figure out before you start hacking away.
>> No. 105154 ID: 13f512
File 150254600232.jpg - (2.63MB , 4352x2904 , IMG_0590.jpg )
>shit that isn't exactly obvious or often covered in reviews/product descriptions

You may have already read this, but the most common failure point is the slide stop, which can crack out of nowhere. The design puts a lot of stress on it during OPERATION. I personally have not had one break on me, but I have seen it happen several times in competition.
>> No. 105155 ID: 13f512
File 150254607298.jpg - (4.58MB , 4352x2904 , IMG_1017.jpg )
Oh, and get a Kadet kit. That is non-negotiable.
>> No. 105156 ID: 13f512
File 150254617212.jpg - (3.35MB , 4352x2904 , IMG_1210.jpg )
I have a lot of random pics of CZs
>> No. 105157 ID: 19518e
File 20170717_125026.webm - (2.96MB )
>destroying the standard dovetail
This will play in my final optic choice, and I am pondering the fabrication of my own BUIS for this project.
>not cutting internals
Webm mostly unrelated but I'll be careful, I'm not bad at avoidance. Also, my metrology gear is getting pretty fleshed out, I may make a video on the subject. It should allow me to measure where the important bits are so I can stay away from them.

I've heard of this. It also made me think about either beefing up that part if the rest of the internals would allow it, or making it out of tougher steel like induction hardened chrome dowel pin. I've worked with those types of pins on many occasions and they are ridiculous. However, I can understand if the internals do not allow for a larger pin, or if having the pin fail is a better option than having a stupid hard pin that then chews up the internals; at that point I'll just buy spare pins, no biggie.

For some reason I'm under the impression that the Shadow 2 has tried to mitigate pin failure somehow. Is this just my brain being dumb or can anyone confirm?
>> No. 105158 ID: 19518e
>kadet kit
Here's where I disagree. I've tried .22 kits before, and I understand the value in them. However, I would rather shoot a dedicated .22 pistol and shoot a dedicated centerfire and sprinkle the latter with dry-fire practice instead of firing a .22 kit.
>> No. 105159 ID: 13f512

Kadet kit is essentially a standalone .22 pistol when installed, it's better than most purpose built .22s... I may get a second frame just to make it its own gun.
>> No. 105160 ID: 19518e
>it's better than most purpose built .22s
While this could be true, my slab-sided Ruger MKIII is just the .22 pistol for me. I'd have to try someone else's kit and be utterly blown away for some ineffable reason to consider getting one.

The CZ will likely warrant a press setup to make a lot of 9x19 with 147 grain bullets. I'm a bit of a sucker for that combination.
>> No. 105161 ID: bf333d
File 150256366361.jpg - (889.74KB , 3564x2376 , IMG_0035-P75.jpg )
>I've heard of this. It also made me think about either beefing up that part if the rest of the internals would allow it, or making it out of tougher steel like induction hardened chrome dowel pin.

The original Sphinx 2000 had the same issue because it's a CZ75 inspired design. As soon as the problem became obvious, Sphinx started making their own slidestop pin (which is a two piece design as you can see in the picture, allowing them to use more expensive steel without losing too much metal in the machining process).
The Sphinx 3000 pins are virtually unbreakable. Dunno about the SDP.

I'd imagine someone sells almost identical pins for CZs. Or hell, it's possible the Sphinx ones work as well but they'd be more expensive to source.
>> No. 105162 ID: 19518e
File pins.webm - (3.74MB )
Looking at that pin, it really seems Sphinx used a hardened chrome dowel pin like I suggested earlier. I'd bet five bucks that's what they use, those pins are stupid hard, really common and cheap.

Here I demonstrate the benefits of an induction hardened chrome pin. Now I only have a 3/8ths diameter, but it would be identical to the one I suspect is used in the Spinx and the one I would use in the CZ, just scaled down obviously.

I'll examine the CZ model I end up getting very closely before doing this kind of modification to ensure I don't end up with a pin hard enough that the pistol around it starts getting chowdered. I'd rather replace a pin than try to unfuck an egged out hole in a frame or whatnot.

As for Sphinx costs in using these kinds of pins, I'm not sure it would be more expensive unless they have to buy slightly oversized pins and grind them/machine them down a little. I've machined these pins before, it's slow going.
>> No. 105163 ID: 13f512

If you succeed and it doesn't fuck with the other internals, depending on your costs that would be something CZ nerds would probably buy. Hell, I'd buy one.
>> No. 105164 ID: bf333d
File 150261309928.jpg - (958.53KB , 3564x2376 , IMG_0042-P75.jpg )
>As for Sphinx costs in using these kinds of pins, I'm not sure it would be more expensive unless they have to buy slightly oversized pins and grind them/machine them down a little. I've machined these pins before, it's slow going.

It's just faster & easier to have a one piece, I'd imagine.

Having two pieces, machined in house, assembling them together, etc creates overhead where they used to just externally source cheapo stuff. It's swiss working hours we're mostly talking about, so it stands to reason Sphinx would try to market it like being teh bestest steel to enable them to charge more.

I got mine upgraded for free, so I'm not miffed about it.

As for ruining the internals, I don't know if there's much difference between steel used by Sphinx and CZUB. Considering the same pins are used on alu and titanium Sphinx 3000 lowers, I don't really expect to see much issues?

Pic: obverse of pin with locking surface.
>> No. 105165 ID: 19518e
It's hard to say what would be more expensive without looking at how they're actually making it. There are so many ways to skin cats in machining that it's damn hard to tell what would be cheaper or more expensive, considering how it would be relatively simple to machine a two-piece versus machining a one-piece L shape from bigger stock and so forth. Do you think the takedown pin is press-fitted in the lever or is it welded in?

Looks like a press-fit from here.

It's possible that the Sphinx has some slightly different internal dimensions that could allow a bit of clearance for the parts relative to the pin, in the order of a few thousandths. It would be very hard to tell without measuring everything properly with a granite, comparators, and so on. Either way I do want to look at it carefully before changing parts out.
>> No. 105166 ID: bf333d
File 150263625090.jpg - (651.88KB , 3564x2376 , IMG_0106-P75.jpg )
>Looks like a press-fit from here.

It's a rounded allen head screw that keeps it together.
>> No. 105171 ID: aad4ac
File 150266491437.jpg - (141.81KB , 1024x768 , pistol Italian Tanfoglio Witness compact 10mm 1.jpg )
A favorite an inexpensive CZ75 clone is the EAA/Tanfoglio Witness. First made to fire heavier loads like the .45ACP or 10mm Auto, the Witness is a good, reliable shooter that's easy to take apart. Mine are the old, all-stainless steel models with flat-top slides (don't get the later rounded slides as they had cracking problems). My full-size Witness in .45ACP has a screw-on compensator that wobbles a little, but works great and my 10mm Witness Compact is a terrific little IWB gun, although heavy compared to contemporary plastic-framed pistols.
>> No. 105173 ID: 19518e
Ah yes I see it, the threaded hardened dowel pins are around 2$ each and rated at 6400lbs single shear breaking strength for 1/4" diameter, it comes in metric, imperial, undersize from nominal, and oversize from nominal. The non-threaded ones are rated for double shear breaking strength of 10000lbs for 1/4" diameter.

I might've mixed up hardened alloy pins with ground chrome piston rod, but the difference is pretty slim as far as how fuckoff hard they are. Obviously the alloy dowel pins could rust and the chrome piston rod would be very resistant to oxidation, but induction hardened chrome rod isn't made in small sizes. Aside from that they're pretty stupid and they make me want to experiment with them, given their low cost in bulk, consistency in diameter, and hardness.

Whoops, sorry for the mixup.

I do want to buy a Sphinx pin to see if it really is that, or if they brewed their own pins with Swiss space magic.
>> No. 105174 ID: bf333d
File 150269644590.jpg - (124.92KB , 1120x752 , 1300029003042.jpg )

It's weird that Tanfoglio guns are so loved in the US, whereas in the EU they have a reputation of lemons.
Roughly speaking their rep is: "They're good guns, but you better buy them from a reputable dealer that stands behind the product because there's a good chance it won't even feed properly."

Maybe difference lies in the fact that the EAA Witness models etc are more "basic" tried & true models, whereas the models popular in the EU tend to be the race guns.

>I do want to buy a Sphinx pin to see if it really is that, or if they brewed their own pins with Swiss space magic.

You'll probably get jewed. It won't be a $10 part.

Looking at current production SDPs, they appear to be a different design than what I have.
>> No. 105187 ID: 13f512
File 150279159680.jpg - (86.39KB , 960x540 , 20798989_10214291595312211_8510788960597656350_n.jpg )
>> No. 105188 ID: 13f512
File 150279160723.jpg - (55.41KB , 960x540 , 20882707_10214291648273535_1259834534963334829_n.jpg )
>> No. 105189 ID: e266a3
CZCustom over in Mesa makes a sight base for the P-10 that might be up your alley if you don't mind a striker gun.

>> No. 105191 ID: 19518e
I could probably get it or find one to measure so I can machine the slide on the CZ I get, unless Jedi can find a cad or a napkin doodle or something.
>drift into existing dovetail
That's pretty handy, and would be the easiest solution, however there's something sexy about direct mount, having that optic just right down there.

I think I'll stick to a hammer gun, I had the chance to fondle and try a Shadow a while back and I think it'll be my bag of milky ways. The way they look with the skinny little slide up top in the square frame just gets me all bothered. Thanks for the CZ parts website, I hope they ship to Canada.
>> No. 105194 ID: 6e292d
File 150285435663.jpg - (280.21KB , 922x692 , DSCF4239.jpg )
I bought a cz-75bd a few days ago and I've put a few hundred rounds through it. Pretty good gun.
>> No. 105201 ID: 19518e
File 150292421454.png - (59.60KB , 708x500 , [wallet_starts_crying.png )
>blue grips

Next week should be ok unless I see something really nice pop up on the used forum, I think I'll have consoled my wallet by then.
>> No. 105202 ID: fb3bdd
Needs more medical tape.
>> No. 105207 ID: f5c3ed
>10 round mag
I know that feel bro
>> No. 105210 ID: 19518e
File 150301425895.png - (352.95KB , 1320x812 , asdads.png )
>> No. 105211 ID: 6e292d
File 15030148582.jpg - (30.54KB , 213x255 , too big to be called a feel.jpg )
>tfw no normal capacity mag
>> No. 105213 ID: f5c3ed
File 150302748549.jpg - (50.86KB , 720x707 , 5f1f8f9694e75188f5eb6a52242c5c7dd8914cc745cad98810.jpg )
Hypothetically you could drive to PA. Just drive I'm saying, what you do out of state is your business not mine.
>> No. 105215 ID: 6e292d
File 150303367643.jpg - (263.84KB , 960x986 , 14105.jpg )
I'm closer to vermont. But if I was going to violate NYS law (which I would never do) I'd just modify drill out the indents on this https://mec-gar.com/store/product_detail/cz-75b-85b-sp-01-shadow-9mm-10-limited-blue so I'd be able to fit 16 rounds in one.
>> No. 105258 ID: 6c3215
File 150308552037.jpg - (47.37KB , 631x300 , Hunter-S-Thompson-convertible-631.jpg )
>But if I was going to violate NYS law

I never suggested that. Just talking about unrelated road trips
>> No. 105273 ID: e9b3d2
File 15030879778.jpg - (135.14KB , 1400x1396 , pistol German WW1 C96 'Broomhandle' Maus.jpg )
Pistol with only a 10-round magazine? Disappointed? Improvise!
The Austro-Hungarian aircraft gunner in the picture is seen using a Mauser C96 pistol combination, probably just for demonstration. Each pistol held a clip of ten bullets and the device attached to them fired them in unison, giving the gunner the ability to rapidly fire 100 rounds in volleys of 10. Two bars passed through the five upper and five lower trigger guards and were attached to the single aiming grip that can be seen in his hand. It had a trigger at the end which was pulled to fire all ten pistols at the same time. Given the close arrangement of the pistols, if the gunfire did hit the enemy aircraft, it would have been like using a shotgun. With the light frame and canvas structures of early war aircraft that might have been enough to bring it down. But one has to wonder how long it would take, and how difficult it would be, to reload and re-mount all ten pistols while maneuvering and trying to avoid nearby enemy aircraft.

The C96 was introduced in 1896 and was immediately popular, being sold to governments, commercially to civilians and individual military officers within the first year of production. As a military sidearm, the pistols saw service in various colonial wars, as well as World War I, The Easter Rising, the Estonian War of Independence, the Spanish Civil War, the Chinese Civil War and World War II. The C96 also became a staple of Bolshevik Commissars and various warlords and gang leaders in the Russian Civil War, known simply as “the Mauser”.

With its long barrel and high-velocity cartridge, the Mauser C96 had superior range and better penetration than most other pistols of its era. The 7.63×25mm Mauser cartridge was the highest velocity commercially manufactured pistol cartridge until the advent of the .357 Magnum cartridge in 1935. A distinctive characteristic of the C96 was its wooden shoulder stock which can double as a holster or carrying case and a grip shaped like the handle of a broom. http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/austro-hungarian-aircraft-gunner-mausers-1917/
>> No. 105279 ID: 13f512
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>> No. 105295 ID: 13f512
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>> No. 105311 ID: 13f512
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>> No. 105411 ID: 19518e
File 150569268833.jpg - (1.99MB , 3420x2148 , persec.jpg )
Well this was a good purchase.

Put a wee bit over a thousand rounds through it, only issue was when the loctite didn't hold on the reset travel screw for the trigger. I fixed that and the gun ran like a clock even as the day went on, magdump after magdump (more on that in another thread, I will explain).
>> No. 105412 ID: 19518e
File 150569313934.jpg - (783.57KB , 1537x1080 , ammoes.jpg )
Fired three or four boxes of Barnaul, not all seen here obviously. It's a bit warmer than the rest, and quite a bit dirtier.

The "remanufactured" canada-made stuff was meh, had a round that was poorly resized feel funny. The gun cycled it, but I felt it stutter when the action was closing. Despite this, it still ran. Furthermore, I had one almost-squib that made me open the gun up and check the bore, thankfully no issues.

The PMC was good, ran smooth, and was accurate.

The bag at the top left-ish was filled with 333 rounds of 147 grain polymer-coated stuff that was soft shooting and reliable, with no hiccups of any kind, I'll be using that stuff again as it is cheap and good.
>> No. 105413 ID: 19518e
File 150569361519.jpg - (502.42KB , 2156x1568 , pmc_group.jpg )
>PMC was accurate
It was a strong 40 yards, possibly 45 as the target was a bit past the 40 yard line, but I would not call it 50 yards. I rested the rail of the gun on a sandbag and fired a 10 shot string, the sights were right on.

This indicates how much more accurate the Shadow 2 is compared to me, and why it was most likely a better choice in terms of price/performance over the higher end race-gun stuff CZ makes.

For me anyway, a better shooter would obviously enjoy the more accurate CZs and also obviously get a better 10 shot group at this distance.
>> No. 105414 ID: 19518e
File 150569377717.jpg - (790.93KB , 2504x1620 , muzzle.jpg )
So far I've noticed cosmetic marks on the takedown pin, I'll be checking all that stuff a little later to see if I can make my own pin.

Dirty muzzle unrelated but I do want to direct you guys to a new thread I'll be making in a few minutes where I explain what the "all the magdumps" things was about.
>> No. 105553 ID: 19518e
File 150614343030.jpg - (381.87KB , 1305x1179 , 1dsfs.jpg )
I decided to start doing my homework so I can mount red dots on this thing.

Things like this pose a bit of a metrology challenge, and this would not be the tool for the job.
>> No. 105554 ID: 19518e
File 150614363688.jpg - (270.14KB , 1292x894 , 2dsads.jpg )
I think if you were clever and careful, you might get away with this, but I wouldn't have the balls to try it. 1/100th graduations are quite nice and fine, but for something like getting the location of all the features and all...

I think we have to dial it up a little.
>> No. 105555 ID: 19518e
File 150614370458.jpg - (421.74KB , 1468x1126 , 3dsadsa.jpg )
Here we go. A decent caliper should be fine.

Hmmm. Still, it is an expensive firearm, better not take chances.
>> No. 105556 ID: 19518e
File 150614385131.jpg - (472.62KB , 1593x1075 , 4dfasd.jpg )
At least I know the caliper reads decent.

Aw fuck the brakes on the metrology train don't seem to be working strap yourselves in boys
>> No. 105557 ID: 19518e
File 150614398871.jpg - (891.52KB , 1992x1294 , 5dsdfgdsf.jpg )
Pin is being a little tricky, let's just get this over with
>> No. 105558 ID: 19518e
File 15061440847.jpg - (1.02MB , 1853x1613 , 6fgsfds.jpg )
You know, while we're at it for the sights I can get the slide stop stuff too
>> No. 105559 ID: 19518e
File help.webm - (3.58MB )
Then it hit me.

I don't have a sine bar.

It took a little while but I simulated one, should be close enough for the stuff to be angled right. I'll also take into account the front and rear sight line angle in comparison to the slide top.
>> No. 105560 ID: 19518e
File 150614620596.png - (16.61KB , 1228x914 , Sine_bar_scheme.png )
>simulating a sine bar
It looks a little funky because we all have to remember that gage blocks are only precise in flatness, parallelism, and thickness. They are pretty much useless for squareness and perpendicularity, so the two pins have to ride on blocks sitting correctly, but then you have to separate the pins precisely by putting another block between them. With a 2" block separating the two pins, the error due to the block not being square should be extremely small, as it'll only be as much as the difference between the hypotenuse of a triangle with a long leg of 2" and a short leg of something like 0.008". I can live with 0.000016" error on that.

If the setup was not made like this, the error might be much greater, hence the explanation and why it's a little like an upside-down sine bar. Either way, it should work.

Using a micrometer to measure the pin diameter accurately, we can find the exact distance between the two pins, then use the aforementioned gage blocks under the pins to meet the angle of the top of the slide. We then compare the slide to another set of wrung blocks just to check, as comparisons are quite a bit better than using the little dial on the height gage.

Once I finish this I'll be able to ensure the cuts are made at the right place, right depth, and right angle so I don't end up mangling my pretty Shadow 2.

I don't mind hearing your thoughts about this to make sure I haven't forgotten anything obvious.
>> No. 105562 ID: 19518e

good digitals > good dials > vernier > cheap dials > feces > shitty digitals

fite me
>> No. 105565 ID: 19518e
You referring to only calipers?

Because my job gave me a Mitutoyo 8" dial caliper, and I own the 8" digimatic seen earlier in the thread.

I used both the dial and digital Mitutoyo calipers daily for a while before going back to all digital, I just don't see the appeal of the dial calipers. They are also more sensitive to dust, and the "feeling" from trying to measure things with consistent pressure is much harder with the rack and pinion physical dial than a smooth digital.

Dial just doesn't feel a nice, doesn't read as quick, and doesn't really do any easy incremental measuring (if that's what you meant by comparative measurement). With no downside with digital, I can't see any reason to use a dial.

Keep in mind I'm comparing dial calipers to the Mitutoyo Digimatic and not other digital calipers, this is a very important point as I have not liked many other digital calipers.
>> No. 105569 ID: 19518e
Digital calipers are offered in coolant-proof variants, but I stuck with the regular digimatic as I liked the buttons and feeling of it better. I find it's much easier to keep the calipers out of coolant rather than keep dials out of ambient dust and small airborne debris.

Measuring tools are obviously subjective, and I have known amazing machinists that used tools I didn't like and obviously made good parts, so it's yet another proof of the million ways to skin cats in the manufacturing industry.
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