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File 150638502858.jpg - (61.50KB , 960x573 , old-lady-guns.jpg )
105574 No. 105574 ID: 01ee61
My mom lives by herself, tending to her own homestead in the woods of Maine. My mom is old, sick and weak. Between being treated badly by bosses at farms she's worked at and the fact she's come down with a couple different illnesses over the years means that her joins and her strength have been ruined, she is just too weak and sickly to use most firearms. Which is bad because of her neighbors.

She has weird neighbors that have moved into the woods around her over the years. One dude is a nutcase who beats his wife. One is an aggressive retarded asshole with a confederate flag on his house and tries to run people off the road with his jacked up truck. One is a real creepy tall dude with no teeth and no sense of personal space. All of them seem fine with roaming around my moms property when she is at work. Someone has filled my moms locks with crazy glue, twice. Someone also went inside and redirected a dryer pipe in my moms house to spew carbon-monoxide into the house instead of out of it.

So what the hell kind of gun does one get a weak old lady in a situation like that? I don't feel that she's really safe without one, but I am currently out of state going to school so I can dig my family out of poverty, so I can't defend her myself. So what the heck do I do then? A tiny .22 pistol would be something she can manage, but I know that you can't/shouldn't use .22 for self-defense. But it does not seem like there is much between .380 and .22 other than uncommon rounds that are somewhat hard to find, costly, and are fired from pistols that are costly themselves.

What is your opinion?

TL;DR: Sick, weak old lady who is even weaker than your average old lady and lives alone needs cheap, small cartridge pistol to defend against violent, threatening retards. Options?
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>> No. 105575 ID: f5c3ed
S&W M&P Shield 9mm. Maybe with a laser?
>> No. 105576 ID: 19518e
S&W 38+P with chewy rubber grips and a trigger that's been loved tenderly by a good smith.

S&W Shield is also a good choice.
>> No. 105577 ID: 5bf26c
File 150638786257.png - (561.74KB , 2400x800 , JRC-QR-TBBL_Left.png )
105577
>>105574
Check out pistol caliber carbines. Throw a $189 holosun red dot on there and leave it on, forever. My reason for liking the PCC: They're light, easy to shoot, low recoil, less deafening than a .223, and decently effective. Long guns in general are much easier to shoot than handguns. Handguns take quite a bit of training and practice to use proficiently. Shotguns rock, but take even more training and some strength. 223 rifles are effective, but you will certainly be deaf afterward, and start to get heavy.

I would start with the Just Right Carbines. I don't have any personal experience with them, but they seem to be well liked.
http://www.justrightcarbines.com/products/

Perhaps the Kel-Tec Sub 2000
https://www.keltecweapons.com/rifles/sub-2000

Ruger PC-9
Marlin Camp Carbine
Beretta Cx4

Hell even a Ruger 10/22 and a 25 round mag would work.

Do some research and check them out for yourself. I really recommend the red dot though. Maybe a light too so she doesn't waste you when you come home for Thanksgiving.

And for fucks sake, do not by Mom a revolver. Of any kind. If anyone suggests that, just stop listening. If it's gonna be a handgun, some kind of Ruger MK III 22/45 or Browning Buckmark or other similar .22LR pistol. Getting hits with .22LR beats misses with anything bigger. Only detail with .22LR is to find the type of ammo the gun likes. My Ruger MK2 shits the bed after 150 rounds of bulk stuff, but rocks with higher velocity/quality ammo like Remington Golden Bullet 40 grain rounds.
>> No. 105578 ID: f09958
  For an old and frail woman, a .22 revolver may be the best bet for self-defense.
Such as a Smith & Wesson J-frame Model 317 in .22 LR. This eight-shot only weighs around 12 ounces and is lauded as a good purse or kit gun.
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2010/10/26/22-lr-for-self-defense/
Shooting the Smith & Wesson Model 317 22 AirLite "Kit Gun" - Gunblast.com https://youtu.be/ndig-LPqnH0
>> No. 105579 ID: 19518e
>>105577
I handled a few JRCs and I did not like them. The ones I shot were unreliable, felt 2lbs heavier than my AR-15, and very clunky. The Kel-Tec and even the fucking Hi-Point carbine shot better IMO.

>no revolvers for mom
It does fit his criteria in the right form, outlined in my earlier post. In this situation I would never suggest an LCR, but I don't think it's fair to remove all revolvers entirely.

I didn't suggest PCCs because I assumed OP wanted a pistol-sized thing, not a rifle-ish thing, as I assumed he wants his mom to CCW the thing.
>> No. 105580 ID: f09958
File 150638945646.jpg - (119.15KB , 1280x852 , pistol US Smith & Wesson Model 317 Kit Gun _22.jpg )
105580
The Smith & Wesson Model 317, debuted in 1997, as part of the AirWeight series of revolvers. Built on an aluminum-alloy J-frame and chambered in 22 Long Rifle, this lightweight revolver is small enough to be carried inside a hunter or fisherman’s kit bag, as its name suggests.

Features • Aluminum alloy frame and cylinder • Stainless steel barrel • HI-VIZ® Fiber Optic Green front sight • Adjustable rear sight
>> No. 105581 ID: f09958
File 150638948494.jpg - (114.78KB , 1280x852 , pistol US Smith & Wesson Model 317 Kit Gun _22.jpg )
105581
>> No. 105582 ID: f09958
  22lr for Self Defense? PROS & CONS https://youtu.be/CzTuWPtQeCI
>> No. 105583 ID: a49a09
>>105579
Wpr, I love you, but no. Revolvers are not viable for defense for someone with little training and weak fingers. There is no way to overcome a 12 pound trigger pull and achieve any kind of accuracy. I've seen the lady with revolver scenario at the range too many times. Here try my Ruger Mk 2, oh wow you can actually hit the target now.

I gathered that this would be more for home defense than a CCW type situation, which is why I go for the PCC recommendation.
>> No. 105584 ID: df12a0
File 150639497914.jpg - (207.05KB , 1600x933 , Kel-Tec_PMR-30__22_Magnum__22_WMR_Pistol_Polymer_F.jpg )
105584
>>105582
>> No. 105585 ID: 30d556
File 150640830295.png - (184.17KB , 354x684 , momgun.png )
105585
I did not expect so much of a response! Thank you all so much! I have been looking at the prices of things you guys have been giving me and thinking over the ideas you have given me.

>>105575
>>105576
I agree that the Shield is a good pistol. But like I said, .380 is too much recoil for her, 9mm would worse. I feel the same about .38 special.

>>105577
It is true that I'm looking for a pistol for her and not a rifle. But I have taken a look at the prices of the pistols you mentioned.

>>105578
>>105580
>>105581
I semi agree with >>105577 about the revolvers issue. The joints in her hands are frail, a few rounds of .380 made them hurt. She could pull the trigger of most revolvers reliably, but the longer pull and extra force would mean her aim with a revolver would be terrible. Boy, I sure would love to own that revolver myself though. The price tag on it though, sheesh. Seems like too much for what you're getting.
Though, your article on .22lr for self defense and the video you posted have opened my eyes to the idea of it, and I am going to research budget .22lr pistols. Thank you for that. The article is really surprising.

>>105584
This seems like a very cool pistol! .22 magnum is a costly cartridge, though.
>> No. 105586 ID: 19518e
>>105583
>>105585
>what about a meatba
jk. I guess it's not exactly practical to gamble on how low you can get a double action trigger weight down while still being reliable or to try and train her to fan the hammer, kek. Cowboy ol' momma...

With CCI Velocitor ammo, a Ruger MKwhatever might end up being the best choice with this difficult set of requirements. They really are quite reliable with good ammo, the trigger is light, the guns are light. I would suggest a slide-handle-thing (like 22 plinkster has on his guns) because the little ribs at the back made to pull the slide aren't the best for those that have a less hand strength.

It's not ideal but it's hard to have an ideal choice when the situation is so rock-and-hard-place.
>> No. 105587 ID: c6a94d
File 150642872058.jpg - (1.41MB , 4000x3000 , pistol US Smith & Wesson Model 351PD AirLite _.jpg )
105587
>>105585
If pulling on a double-action revolver trigger is problematic, perhaps Granny can use a single-action revolver, instead? Or use a lightweight .22 DA revolver like the 317 in single-action because no single-action revolver I have seen is as light as the 317. My Ruger New Model Single-Six .22 has a heavier hammer draw than my Ruger New Model Super Blackhawk .44 Magnum, but these are very heavy revolvers compared to aluminum or titanium airweight revolvers (I personally would use the Super Blackhawk for self defense or a short Ruger Vaquero Birdshead in .45 ACP for conceal carry).

If pulling a DA trigger is a problem, then pulling the slide on an automatic will be problematic as well.

I have a cheap all-steel Rossi Plinker 8-shot .22 LR revolver and its SA hammer pull is... not terrible. You will have to take your Mom to a good gun store and have her try out various guns to see what works best with her.
>> No. 105588 ID: c6a94d
File 150642880665.jpg - (1.19MB , 4000x3000 , pistol US Smith & Wesson Model 351PD AirLite _.jpg )
105588
S&W 351PD AirLite .22 Magnum Revolver: Zero Recoil Seven-Shot Defender
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/sw-351pd-airlite-22-magnum-revolver/
>> No. 105589 ID: 5af259
File 150644061882.jpg - (251.50KB , 1023x767 , WINCHESTER 16 GA PUMP SHOTGUN.jpg )
105589
Any reason no one has mentioned a shotgun yet? My mother was 100% disabled Veteran and she could still work the 12g with not much issue.
>> No. 105590 ID: 284ea0
Seconding the PCC option, for the reasons Avgas described. The Beretta CX-4 is nice because it's a high quality option that works well is easy enough to find. Kel-tec Sub2ks aren't bad guns, but you compromise a lot ergonomically to have a gun that folds.

You could also look into something like an FN PS90 or Kel-tec CMR - both have less recoil than a blowback 9mm, similar terminal effectiveness*, should be easy to operate and rack the bolt on, and have a high mag capacity. The problem is that the PS90 is stupid expensive and the Kel-tec is a Kel-tec and a rimfire, so reliability is suspect. They're options, though, and they can be bought complete from a gun shop with no fuss.


On the cheaper end of things, don't write off the Hi-Point 995. They're ugly and the magazines have a relatively low capacity, but they're reliable, accurate enough, and can be equipped with a light and a cheap Bushnell TRS-25, Holosun, or Primary Arms red dot for the price of a Beretta CX4.

>>105577
>Hell even a Ruger 10/22 and a 25 round mag would work.
This is an option if you're desperate. Those BX-25s feed reliably. Load it up with high velocity solids and blast the fuckers until they drop or the gun goes dry. They're easy to operate too should you get a dud.

>>105589
Pump shotguns require a bit of practice to run well - confidently racking the pump to avoid feeding issues and practice to reload the tube. Semis don't have that problem, but they're usually more expensive and have reliability issues. I'd sooner go for a PCC or AR-15, but shotguns can't be beat on price.

Also, OP, make sure she has somewhere secure the rifle if she isn't home. The last thing she wants to do is toss it under her bed and arm the nut job neighbors when they break in when she's not around.

*out of a rifle length barrel
>> No. 105591 ID: 360fc6
>>105587
The S&W 317 has prices on it that are more than most other things in this thread. Your S&W 351PD AirLite looks amazing, but is also a .22 magnum, which is a costly round. My friend has a .22 magnum rifle of some kind, and she says .22 magnum often costs her more than what some centerfire stuff costs. Looking at the prices online, that's not a far off statement. Now, the Rossi Plinker you mentioned, that seems really great. You say it works okay, the price is $270, which is better then most things mentioned ITT, so that's really worth looking at. Thank you!

>>105589
No one did because I said I was looking for a pistol for her.
>>105590
Again, I said I am looking for a pistol for her. She'd be carrying it most places.
>> No. 105592 ID: f0fb5d
Take her shooting and find out what she can and can't do before assuming she can't. If you just buy her a gun you think is best, she's liable to leave it in the closet. Let her make up her own mind and buy a decent gun.

Maybe she can work a Glock 19 better than you assume and she'll have a simple operating system with 15 rounds on tap. She can even cheat and use the slide lock to get back into battery after she's pumped 15 into wife beater and creepy no personal space guy comes creeping. The Shield will have a smaller grip, be easier to get a grip on with small hands and still have 8 or 9 rounds of something that works on tap.

I might start her on a lightweight, autoloading long gun in a competent pistol caliber so she can get 2 hands and a shoulder on it but make sure blowback recoil isn't too sharp.

But let her try things out and pick.
>> No. 105593 ID: 360fc6
File 150648046311.jpg - (68.46KB , 600x600 , phoenix-arms-hp22a-hp25a-walnut-grips-01-600x600.jpg )
105593
Since you guys have opened my eyes about .22, I've been looking around. I've been reading about the Phoenix Arms HP22A, a .22 pistol that costs about $130.
From reading reviews and reports from long time owners it is said this pistol is more reliable and more durable that it's price point would lead one to believe. It's sort of two guns in one, because it's barrel is actually interchangeable with a longer one, which make it even more accurate. It apparently is already fairly accurate for it's price. The way its safety works with the slide is weird, though.
So it's tiny, fairly accurate, durable, fires reliably, and costs 130 bucks, but apparently has a weird safety. I think this is well worth considering.
>> No. 105594 ID: 360fc6
File 150648053517.jpg - (413.54KB , 800x629 , Phoenix-Arms-HP22A-2.jpg )
105594
>>105593
>> No. 105595 ID: f11f4d
File 150649750018.jpg - (92.60KB , 640x480 , pancakes-and-green-beans.jpg )
105595
>>105593
A phoenix arms hp22 was my first gun, and I still have it. About 4k rounds through it.

Honestly, if someone made a not-pot metal or retarded safeties version I'd totally buy it.
This is one of those guns that you know you shouldn't like, but somehow do. The limiting factor of it's accuracy has always been me, not the pistol. The trigger would probably be considered not great, but for me it fits my hand well and the and the take up and wall end up being nice for target shooting. I'm able to pull the trigger on the gun and have it remain completely motionless (which is more than I can say for my fucking Kahr).

One thing to watch out for is to make sure the roll pins are flush in the frame, filing them down if you need to. Especially the one just under the slide on the right side, partially covered by the grips, which will rub against the slide.

Another thing you'll need to do if you shoot it with any frequency, is to always inspect it for cracks, I hear that particularly the slide is where failures most often occur.

As far as reliability goes, my impression is that it is as reliable as the ammo you feed it. If you put in cheap 22lr, you'll get the occasional stovepipe or hangfire.
It wouldn't be something I would outright recommend for self defense, but it will always be superior to nothing.

With an empty mag extended mag and the long barrel it weighs 22.6 ounces. She may have issues pulling the slide back or cocking the hammer. ALG's extra slick oil or grease can help, but she'll still need to exert a fair bit of force as with most hammer based guns.

Sounds like what she needs a fence and security cameras too.
>> No. 105625 ID: 738b31
can grandma cock a pocket pistol? those little fuckers tend to be stout.
larger .22lr pistols sound like the best bet, or an FN fiveseven if you can shit gold.

Why has no one ever magnumed the .25 auto? that seems like a good self defense round.
>> No. 105627 ID: da39fa
>>105625
You can't get a very big bullet in .25 ACP.
>> No. 105628 ID: c6a94d
File 150681611414.jpg - (901.50KB , 2315x2892 , bullets, 6_5x50mmSR Arisaka (center) with _303 Bri.jpg )
105628
>>105627
True! You can get better boom from .22 Long Rifle than the diminutive .25 Auto.
Even the .25 Jap (6.5x50mmSemi-Rimmed Arisaka) was seen as being too light in the ass, but this round was used in early experimental assault rifles such as the Russian 1915 Fedorov Avtomat.

- 6.5×50mmSR Arisaka (center) with .303 British (left) and .30-06 (right).
>> No. 105631 ID: 19518e
>>105628
>>105625
>>105627
I wonder how well pocket .25 ACPs would handle hot-loading.
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