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No. 107184 ID: 9dcda2
  InrangeTV: WWSD: Rethinking the AR15 - CONCLUSION

The shills for Dixie Waste Services have finally concluded their What Would Stoner Do project, and come up with a gun that weighs under 5.5 lbs.



Thoughts on their setup? Thoughts on modern AR parts in general?
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>> No. 107185 ID: 9dcda2
File 15231959133.jpg - (263.95KB , 1440x1080 , 095c7058a026dbc7e56f67671d637a56.jpg )
I've setting up my AR for high speed gamer action. The first step was a muzzle brake. The second was lightweight recoil parts.

I picked up a Taccom light weight buffer:

And by light weight buffer, I mean two pieces of plastic. Added in a lower powered buffer spring. I mean, why spend all that money on a light weight BCG, if you can just lighten the thing the BCG recoils with?
>> No. 107186 ID: 9dcda2
File 152319608524.jpg - (43.91KB , 1024x768 , adj-gas-key.jpg )
Ok, with lighter parts, you need to limit the amount of gas you're getting. Either you can do it at the gas block or at the gas key.


Dropped in these bad boys and took it to the range. Did single shots until the bolt locked back on an empty mag, gave it another half turn, screwed in the jam screw. Next step, thread lock it in place. I forgot that step.
>> No. 107187 ID: 9dcda2
File ar_fail_1.webm - (3.50MB , ar fail_1.webm )
Head up to PA, shootin' a 3-gun match.

Stage 1, absolutely rocks. Just blaze through all the targets. John Wick ain't got shit on me.

Stage 2, one stoppage, maybe I didn't seat the mag all the way.

Stage 3, gun turns into a bolt action rifle. The good news I kept my head in the game and just racked the rifle each time. It started working towards the end.

I finished the day borrowing someone else's gun.

Later, I checked the set screw. It had choked the gas almost completely off. I figure it was working itself in and out. Some rockset would have solved the issue, but I also noticed a lot (A LOT) of carbon buildup in the upper receiver. That thing was turbo shitting where it ate.
>> No. 107188 ID: 9dcda2
File 152319676848.jpg - (13.29KB , 600x600 , 7S-600x600.jpg )
I recently built an AR for my buddy that had a Spikes Tactical light weight BCG. (Not optimal.) I did a shit ton of research on adjustable gas blocks and came up with the SLR Sentry 7.


It's got a beefy leaf spring that holds the adjustment screw detents.
>> No. 107190 ID: 9dcda2
File 152319763161.jpg - (233.48KB , 1280x853 , _MG_0064__29962_1462490175.jpg )
I figured it was time for a proper lightweight Bolt Carrier Group, so I looked around a bit and decided on the "Faxon 5.56/300 BLK Gunner Light Weight Bolt Carrier Group".


An InRange influenced buy. I really enjoyed the Faxon discussions on barrels manufacturing. For my buddy's gun we got a heavy fluted Faxon barrel, and it's fuckin' nice. Melonite is the way to go. The melonite on the S&W M&P pistols is awesome, and I had a Black Hole Weaponry melonite'd barrel that was tits.

For the BCG, I wanted to stick with steel. I just didn't feel like Aluminum or Titanium was appropriate.

> 9310 Tool Steel Construction
> Lightest Weight Possible (8.5 Ounces Complete, 6.24 Ounces Carrier & Key Only)
> Forward Assist Serrations

Having forward assist serrations was the deciding factor. I want my damn forward assist for press checks. Fuck off.
>> No. 107191 ID: 9dcda2
File 152319782291.jpg - (101.80KB , 500x300 , 4197.jpg )
Ok, so I needed to ditch that plastic "buffer" for a gud one. Well, on InRange's recommendation I picked up the JP Rifles SCS.


tl;dr It's nice but really doesn't add much. Could skip.

It's handy that you can swap out the recoil springs. I tried a few different ones, and sure enough it does take more or less gas depending on the spring you choose. I didn't notice any recoil difference between them. The 80% spring I had with the taccom setup worked just as well. Really a lightweight/standard buffer and a pack of buffer springs would have gotten me the same thing.

The whole silent thing is a gimmick. Karl and Ian mention in the video that minor annoyances go away when you're shooting with a timer, and I feel the same way about the AR buffer spring.

I got settled got bored of testing on the JP white spring (JPSCS2-15-80) and 7 clicks open on the adjustable gas block. (7 of 15. 0-0.125")
>> No. 107192 ID: 9dcda2
File fully_semi_automatic.webm - (1.32MB , fully semi automatic.webm )
I spent probably an hour or so messing with gas settings and springs. Here's my buddy shooting. Slomo with the phone camera.
>> No. 107193 ID: 9dcda2
File fully_semi_automatic_2.webm - (1.57MB , fully semi automatic 2.webm )
Buddy 2. After watching the video frame by frame NOT OBSESSING it looks like most of the recoil is from the bullet being propelled. Equal and opposite reaction, and all that. There's no extra jerk back when the carrier hits the back of the receiver (if it even does) and a tiny bit of "forward recoil" when the carrier goes into battery. (To use the FNforums term for why SCARs break optics.)

We'll see how it goes at the next match.
>> No. 107198 ID: 22ba7a
Probably in the upcoming months I'll be building a rifle and using some of the components in the WWSD build along with some other things I think could result in improvements for what I want. Mainly, I think I'll be trying out a carbon fiber wrap barrel. I've had some dealings with carbon fiber wrap barrels, and they are not all built equal. The manufacturer is extremely important when choosing such a barrel, and from what I've dealt with, Proof Research barrels are probably the only way to go. Yes, they're expensive, but from what I can tell, it'll be worth it for what I want.

As mad as it'll sound, I'll also be doing some pretty hard testing of the barrel's capabilities. It'll be stuff like drop tests, rough use in various environments, and POI/POA high round count tests with thermometer reading comparisons against regular steel barrels. I also want a carbon fiber handguard from Faxon, but I have no clue where to acquire one in leafland. Maybe I'll have to go through an importer like irunguns or something...

That aside the build will be aiming for lighter weight but there are some limits I'll have to deal, like I will not have any way to get an GWACS polymer lower, with but I think I'll be able to come up with a decent little rifle in the end.

This is pretty related to my interests. I think they did a pretty good job with their WWSD build, even if I would still probably stick on irons as I'm not huge on magnifiers and there are ways of sticking on a little backup iron sight without obstructing stuff, but I do understand that honestly it's not a big deal and you will probably never really need irons like that.

I'm still beating on my cheap shit NEA SBR with no gas rings and a regular buffer with no weights in. It's not ideal and I would still stick some weight in it if I got off my lazy butt and made the gas block adjustable so it isn't full retard overgassed, that way I could put in the gas rings and stick at least some weight in the buffer. From what I know, weights in the buffer are useful as they can prevent bolt carrier bounce. The weights lag behind the carrier just a tiny little bit, so when the carrier tries to bounce, the weights land on it and dampen the movement. I think that's the theory anyway, and bounce isn't a huge issue unless you're shooting F/A so whatever. I think that's why light carriers are a thing, it's because you can have a light carrier but still have a buffer weight to ensure the carrier seats firmly.

I personally would avoid a threaded fastener that way on a gas key. Loctite can only do so much, and threads are never perfectly airtight. Heat can break off loctite, and erosion could do the rest. For that environment, a threaded fastener can either seize or loosen and back off, both aren't ideal. I think an adjustable block with a spring retainer like that one >>107188 is a better way of going about it.

Cycle looks really good to me.
>> No. 107202 ID: 9dcda2
> full retard overgassed

I'm pretty pleased with the SLR gas block. The word is they're pretty durable and reliable.

Check out the JP Rifles video Mass vs Gas.

> carbon fiber wrap barrels

For .223? I've seen plenty of 22LR barrels, which sounds fine. Steel is pretty good for the whole barrel thing.
>> No. 107204 ID: 1519ac
They are steel, just a small diameter that gets wrapped in carbon fiber. You can get them in .338, .223 will be fine.
>> No. 107207 ID: 22ba7a
>Check out the JP Rifles video Mass vs Gas.
Good basic overview, but it doesn't really address the little details of bolt bounce from a standard spring and buffer system. Probably doesn't apply with the JP captured springs and all that fancy stuff. Vuurwapen touches a bit on this type of thing in video related.

There's a lot of carbon fiber wrap barrels out there, they are not made equal. Although my experience is limited, I'm willing to try out the Proof Research barrels. They offer a very stiff and accurate barrel for what basically amounts to pencil-profile steel weight. I've seen them in calibers up to 338 Lapua, and I've heard of a test where a shooter dumped a hundred rounds through his 308 Norma Mag as fast as he could cycle his bolt action. Keep in mind that caliber is very close to a 300 Win Mag, a hundred rounds that fast is quite a lot and it'll get the barrel cooking hard. Heat mirage over the barrel made precision shooting almost impossible, but still the Proof Research barrel didn't show much point of impact shift. The barrel cooled very quickly, quicker than any steel barrel, and proceeded to fire a group of the same size and position as the first cold-bore group.

This test is hearsay and anecdotal, but the witness is trustworthy. Still, I'm still skeptical and I'll definitely be honest as I'm spending my own money on this. Even with magazine limitations, I know I can get a barrel fucking hot, and I'll definitely try out various tests myself and report without sugarcoating.
>> No. 107215 ID: 60641c
I think the best part about the WWSD project is the fact that a good polymer lower can save you weight and not give up a bit of functionality or durability. If the price of AR lowers ever rises, I'd love to see GWACS improve the old CavArms design. I don't think they'd ever sell enough to pay down the tooling cost with the cost of aluminum lowers such as they are.

The carbon fiber handguard is neat too. The light weight, strength, and heat rejection are real benefits if you can get past the cost.
>> No. 107221 ID: 22ba7a
Here's a good article on good carbon wrap barrel.


From what I understand at this point, carbon fiber is much more complicated than at first blush. The epoxy and the weave pattern matter a whole lot, and both can dramatically change the properties of the final product to such an extent that they appear polar opposites.

For example, a carbon fiber handguard can be so insulating that it stays cool in direct sunlight and high round counts. However, with the right wrap and epoxy compound, a carbon fiber wrap barrel can conduct heat away faster than steel. In essence, the carbon fiber wrap acts like a massive heat sink that dissipates heat into the outside air very efficiently, cooling the steel barrel within quickly.

We all seem to think firearms have plateaued, and while that may be true for the basic form and function of standard cased munition firearms, I think we will see many changes stemming from material sciences. What now may be fancy expensive accessories or components will get cheaper, and with that might come changes to firearm designs that will reduce weight, improve durability, and other such factors. I think in the next decade or two, carbon fiber and other such boutique materials could become as prevalent as polymer is now.
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