AR-15s have become stupidly cheap. You can get a Ruger AR-556 or a S&W M&P15 Sport for like $500-$600.

Build an AR.

If you're not into that, used guns are probably your best bet for budget and decent.

Remington Wingmaster 870s with 2 3/4" only chambers should still be floating around, they're probably the absolute best deal if you find one in decent shape for like 200 to 250 bucks, sometimes a little cheaper. They don't have all the frills of newer models but they're amazing in every way that counts.

Ruger MK>4 are still probably your best bet for price/performance. Learn to strip and reassemble, it's cheaper than buying an MK4. Yes there are other great .22 semi pistols but few come close to bang for buck of the Ruger MKwhatevers.

Marlin 795, probably the best price/performance out of the box. You should be able to find these for like 150 bucks new but I got like three of them years and years ago so I'm not sure what they go for now. I got mine new for 120 leaf rubles a few years ago and they're always awesome, I wouldn't hesitate to pick one up used even if it needs a bit of TLC. Promag makes a 25 rounder for them, haven't had much trouble with them.

Can't really go wrong with Savage bolt action rifles, you can usually find a used Savage for cheap, usually in a big magnum caliber because it'll kick too hard for fuddy mcfudderston so he sells it after a box of ammo when it starts picking up rust at the bottom of his basement a few years after he picked it up because he needed all the stopping powers. Stevens is pretty much the cheaper end of Savage before the Axis rifles came out, they're cheap but I'd get a Stevens/Axis before considering the lower end Remington 700 rifles like the 770 or whatever 783 number Remington five dolla me break long time specials.

Milsurp stuff at this point is something to be really cautious about. See it in person, don't fall in love, stay rational. If you think you see something nice and think you're getting lucky, really pay attention, inspect carefully, and think about how available ammo is in your area. Look for K31s if you reload/have access to GP11, they're arguably the best milsurp now that the nugget price/performance is fucking ruined. Nuggets used to be good because they were like a hundred bucks, but for what they go for, they're not really worth it unless you have thousands of thousands of rounds just picking up dust somewhere and somehow find one that isn't totally bullied dead rusted counterbored muzzle for "799 sniper russian rifle made in finland I know what I got no lowballers".

Used modern semi-auto pistols are pretty hard to fuck up, even well used police trade-ins can serve you well after a bit of basic TLC for a reasonable price.

>>107196
That was informative, thank you

What's the economy going into building an AR from an 80% lower? Can I 'pistol' route it with an arm brace as is the current fashion trend or is there some lawyer wizardry that has to happen ? I got access to an old machinist with a mill and time on his hands so I can build the hell out of something, but I've never even sat down to make a list of all teh various parts needed after the reciever is done.

>>107200
You are not saving any money building from 80% lower, any stripped lower without "PISTOL" marking can build into a pistol.

There are a few "bracer" options out there, original SB bracer has quiet a few different style, Shockwave Blade is popular too and a bunch of the PDW stock company makes bracer versions too.


Careful about how you describe building that 80% how you word it, is illegal, you will have to do all the work to complete the 80% :)

You can easily pick up a used (i.e. pre freedom group) marlin model 60 for under 200. Just as good or arguably better than a 10/22 unless you're dead set on removable mags or want to tacticool it.

>>107201
how is my current description illegal?
If I have a blank 80% lower, finish it, and never put a stock on it, I would be in the clear to call it a pistol correct? from there; arm brace for my one hand firing.
AM i missing something?

>>107201
ohhhh I don't mean the old machinist would build it for me, just that I have access to tools and knowledge to use them for my own building pleasure.
Or do i have to own the equipment to build it too?

>>107206
ATF's last effort to shut down "build party" is you will have to own most of the tools you use to build so if he sell his tools to you for $1 so you can finish your build then you sell it back to him for $1 it will be ok *wink*

>>107208
christ, can't they just fuck off already?
I'm eyeing the short shotgun thread thinking "they are perfectly legal to own but absurdly illegal to make" and it all comes down to bureaucrats making busy work for themselves

>>107212
>christ, can't they just fuck off already?

so i finger fucked some AR pistols today with arm braces. I like the concept paired with 300blk or similar where you got most of the umph from a short barrel. Poking around gun broker I see AR pistols as low as $600. I asked at the gun store what's the cheapest pistol they got (snubbies at $300) and the cheapest thing that goes bang (single shot .22 for $180).
Given the pricing on fucking everything $500~600 for an ar pistol with brace seems kinda like a fucking steal.

So what do i need to know to build one? .300blk looks on paper to be a modern .30-30 which is good enough for me.
Most of what I need to know is what parts do I *need* to spend the money for a good rifle as apposed to grabbing the cheapest thing i can find online. I assume trigger group and barrel are the big money ones, but I know jack shit about upper and lower receivers as well as options that might effect build (i understand having a side charging handle requires a dedicated receiver, am I right?)

>>107235
Barrel and bolt carrier group are by far your most important pieces here. Do not skimp, especially on a shorty because you will hate it. I woud keep watc

After that a lower receiver is RELATIVELY a lower receiver. You can still go cheap, but don't buy some random gun shop's rollmarked shit. I used an Anderson to replace a way out of spec "Delaware Machinery CO" lower on a rifle I built my dad and I actually had no issues for the $30 it cost. On waifu's rifle I used an Aero precision and it also was perfect.

For barrels I would look at PSA (ONLY the CHF line, not any of their freedom or ptac shit. Their CHF barrels are made by FN for them" BCM, Daniel Defense etc. Basically high mid tier stuff that's totally solid, but not stupid flashy like everybody wants now.

For BCG I actually like the nickel boron stuff, but parkerized is fine. Palmetto state armory premium, BCM, Aero precision, Daniel defense etc. Whichever is "milspec" and on sale. I've used all of those and have yet to have an issue.

>>107238
Slight unorganized followup to my grammatically retarded and punctuation impaired post here.

Triggers: Milspec is fine, but the upgrade to an ALG trigger is worth it, and I personally have put the budget Geiselle G2s in all of my rifles when they go on sale and do not regret it. Any where from $110 to $125 during a sale and you have a very nice two stage trigger that won't turn to mush 1,000 rounds down the road.

Receiver extension kit (buffer tube, buffer etc): Do a lot of research on this with a pistol. When you pick a barrel, try to do some research to see if people mention it being under or over gassed in order to choose a buffer weight. 300 blackout is a little different, but I rolled the dice and put a VLTOR A5 pistol system with the included buffer on my palmetto CHF 10.5 5.56 upper and it is awesome. With that gas port/buffer weight combo I have the most weirdly consistent ejection out of any of my AR-15's, perfect reliability and it is not too "smacky" to shoot. My only "complaint", which is my problem and fixable is my SB SOB brace can start to rotate a bit on the tube. I just haven't sat down and looked for the cleanest solution to make it stick a little better. This is my truck gun for when babby pistol won't cut it.

Furniture/Railz: I personally think the SB tactical route is the way to go for braces. They're the ones getting the detailed letters that you could show in an unlikely encounter. I think the tailhooks look great, but I decided to play it a little safer and get the SOB brace. Also the tailhooks were vaporware at the time. KAK shockwaves look fine, but they're not for me.

As for hand guards, I am perfectly content with the $5 parts bin skinny heat shielded hand guards I put on mine for this weapon's purpose. If I had to put a rail on it, I would go with an ALG during one of their blem sales. These are not super duper long range builds, the "rail" is useful because of heat dissipation and mounting a light, but it's all relative. I've installed a couple ALG rails and honestly, I would take one over most of the whizzbang $300 setups out there. They're comfortable, easy to install and light enough.

SIGHTS: A trijicon MRO is my favorite, but if you're going to go budget oriented as you've indicated, open sights are fine. I would not waste my time with these blister pack pieces of shit out there. That includes the burris and bushnell. Vortex are very slightly better, but frankly they're still not in the same league as an aimpoint, trijicon or even eotech. I have seriously had more than one person put a fucking $29.88 Sightmark on a brand new Daniel Defense (for home defense) because they blew all their money on the rifle and didn't even have back up sights. They were sure to get those "super cool" promotional fucking cerekoted oakleys with the rifle though. Weakest link, don't be a fucking poser etc.

Fixed is best if you're going iron sight only for a while. I put a KAC micro back up sight on this build and I just didn't like it. Ended up getting a daniel defense 1.5 through work until I eventually get another MRO. Then we'll go back to the KAC.

UPPER RECEIVER: Doesn't really matter, just make sure it's got the right feed ramps. Can't really screw up an Aero precision. (this is only if you don't buy a complete or barreled upper which may be a good idea)



Now as far as build tools go. I bought "no mar" barrel vise blocks and had zero issues with 4 builds on them. They're obviously not snap on tier tools, but they're like $25 and work perfectly. The only thing I did go a little more expensive on was the brownells wrench for castle nuts and barrel nuts. It is good quality and will not mar edges up like my dinky little $9.99 specials used to. Things are going to get scraped up, but I hate when I put something together and it looks really unprofessional.

https://www.plastixrevolution.net/collections/ar15-upper-vise-blocks/products/upper-receiver-vise-block
https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/rifle-tools/wrenches/ar-15-armorer-s-wrench-prod80294.aspx

Speaking of AR builds, anyone got the Romanov guides? I know I have some of the old PNG stuff somewhere but I think they're a little outdated.

>>107239
truth be told I'm a giant fucking fud. My ideal rifle would be an M1 carbine shooting .30-30. The SCR lower is what got me looking at AR's which i dismissed earlier more on looks rather than any real detraction to the platform.

When i build my firearm its going to be iron only, with no real provision for attachments because i've never used them and don't plan to start now. I probably can't get away from rails everywhere, but that's just the nature of he beast i guess.

for a pistol build the gas block needs to be about 4 inches out on the barrel, would that mean I have to use free-float hand guard? And what are my options for fixed iron sites? Does wood furniture even exist for an AR that's not custom built?

Again thank you for the info. Lots to catch up on since I never really followed ARs