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No. 108262 ID: 9dcda2
  Project Lightening discussion.
1 post omitted. Last 50 shown. Expand all images
>> No. 108267 ID: 5435b6
  Project Lightening Episode 02: 100 Yard Test https://youtu.be/-hSZbo8Hvn4
Project Lightening is the first collaborative project between C&Rsenal and Forgotten Weapons. It features SEVEN World War One light machine guns put head to head to see which is the best!
>> No. 108268 ID: 5435b6
  Fedorov Avtomat, The First Assault Rifle? https://youtu.be/dxHJbEmvCPI
The Fedorov Avtomat (also anglicized as Federov, Russian: Автомат Фёдорова) (English: Federov Automatic Rifle) or FA was a select-fire, "handheld light-machine-gun" (see Terminology section below), designed by Vladimir Grigoryevich Fyodorov in 1915 and produced in the Russian Empire and later in the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic. A total of 3,200 Fedorov rifles were manufactured between 1915 and 1924 in the city of Kovrov; the vast majority of them were made after 1920. The weapon saw combat in World War I, but was used more substantially in the Russian Civil War and in the Winter War. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedorov_Avtomat
>> No. 108269 ID: 5435b6
  M1916 Fedorov: Russia's First Assault Rifle? https://youtu.be/M7yhQXFKHMc
I have been trying to get my hands on Fedorov M1916 rifle for a while, and I finally had the opportunity at the NFC, part of the British Royal Armouries. The Fedorov was designed in the years just before World War One, and originally chambered for a proprietary 6.5mm cartridge (also designed by Fedorov) and using a fixed magazine. It was a development of the understanding of infantry firepower that came from the Russo-Japanese War, although Czar Nicholas II did not think it was a useful type of rifle. Once the Great War changed attitudes of many military figures, the Fedorov saw a comeback. Inspired by the tactical concept of the French Chauchat automatic rifle, Fedorov fitted the rifle with a 25-round detachable box magazine and rechambered it for the 6.5mm Arisaka cartridge (which Russia had supply of by way of the UK). In this new format, a small number were produced and issued before the Russian Revolution caused the nation to leave the war.

Fedorov and his team were established at the Kovrov Arsenal (originally built and equipped by the Danish Madsen firm to make light machine guns, but that plan never reached completion). There they perfected the production tooling for the guns, and produced them form 1921 until 1925, making about 3200 in total. They saw service during the Russian Civil War, and were apparently well liked despite a reputation for being a bit finicky and delicate. They were pulled out of service and warehoused in the late 1920s, although they would be reissued during the Winter War with Finland.

Overall, the Fedorov is a remarkably good rifle for its time period. Had further development been possible or encouraged, it could probably have been simplified substantially, although history has shown that there was no true future for recoil-operated military shoulder rifles. The tactical concept behind the design was excellent, and rather ahead of its time. The idea of equipping each man with effectively a portable machine gun would not see true successful implementation until the German Sturmgewehr, but Russia could have beaten them to the punch by some 25 years had the circumstances been a bit different.
>> No. 108270 ID: 5435b6
  Project Lightening Episode 03: Walking Fire https://youtu.be/A9ryJaj3mPw
Approved by the Ministry of Silly Walks.
>> No. 108271 ID: 9dcda2
  >>108270
This is absolutely the best thing I've ever seen moving pictures of. The only thing better is if they could have John Moses Browning travel forward in time to help with the show.

Although he might be an ass, so it's probably best to leave the time travel alone.
>> No. 108272 ID: 5435b6
File 155081949631.jpg - (100.09KB , 500x733 , German WW1 MG 08-15 maschinengewehr w 100-round tr.jpg )
108272
>>108270
They should re-do the whole Walking Fire episode with the following changes:
- Have better targets that won't tear away when shot, and back these targets with cardboard, wood or hay bales.
- Have the slings made for the weapons attached for better walking fire. And have the hip-fire cup cartridge belt for the BAR. They issued them for that purpose.
- Have a running fire exercise where you run towards a target while steadily firing the weapon full-auto (this may be a little too dangerous to do, though) and see which is better.
- Have a bounding advance exercise where the contestants must run to a crater (or marked area in the field), go prone, fire a magazine (or 20 rounds from the Lewis Gun), reload, run to another crater, go prone and fire another mag (or 20 rounds).
>> No. 108273 ID: 5435b6
File 155081966149.jpg - (142.40KB , 1849x1308 , UK WW1 Lewis gun captured from bandits in 1928 Nic.jpg )
108273
Lewis machine gun captured from bandits at El Chufon by the 52d Co., 11th Regt on 19 Oct 1928 in Nicaragua.
>> No. 108274 ID: 9dcda2
>>108272
It looks like the targets were getting blasted by mud when they hit low.

I don't think it was a really serious test. More to prove that walking fire is dumb. But hey, when machine guns were new, nobody knew how to use them.
>> No. 108275 ID: 5435b6
File 155085335423.jpg - (766.50KB , 7000x2956 , French WW1 Hotchkiss Portative Model 1909 LMG (1).jpg )
108275
>>108274
Well, they certainly used those new machine-guns to telling effect; mowing down mobs of people.
Developing doctrine and tactics in the use of the newer light and mobile machine-guns required more finesse to use them on the attack.

In 1903, French military theorists noticed that the heavy machine guns of the day were of little use in infantry assaults. They determined that "the machine gun must learn to walk". They researched the possibility of a light machine gun which could be carried by troops. A marching fire tactic was theorised, using incidental suppressive fire, with the advancing troops considered a deadlier threat than the un-aimed bullets, causing the enemy to fall back. The prototype guns were not approved for production, and none were in service when World War I began. The French quickly brought the prototypes to mass production to boost the firepower of advancing infantry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_machine_gun
>> No. 108276 ID: 5435b6
File 155085365940.jpg - (933.91KB , 6871x3538 , French WW1 Hotchkiss Portative Model 1909 LMG (4).jpg )
108276
French Hotchkiss Portative Model 1909 LMG.
This model has a bipod mounted at the end of the front-heavy barrel instead of that wobbly tripod mounted at the middle of the weapon.
>> No. 108277 ID: 5435b6
File 155085375338.jpg - (151.13KB , 1765x1199 , French WW1 Hotchkiss Portative Model 1909 LMG (2).jpg )
108277
>> No. 108278 ID: 5435b6
File 155085390279.jpg - (238.00KB , 1795x1182 , French WW1 Hotchkiss Portative Model 1909 LMG (3).jpg )
108278
>> No. 108279 ID: 5435b6
File 155085405141.jpg - (131.99KB , 1000x740 , French WW1 Hotchkiss pattern 'Portative'.jpg )
108279
French WW1 Hotchkiss pattern 'Portative' cavalry machine-gun, made in UK.
>> No. 108280 ID: 5435b6
File 155085428493.jpg - (2.02MB , 3600x2218 , French WW1 Hotchkiss portable 1909 MK I _303 UK 1.jpg )
108280
French WW1 Hotchkiss portable 1909 MK I in .303, made in the UK.
>> No. 108281 ID: 5435b6
File 155085432877.jpg - (1.92MB , 3600x2122 , French WW1 Hotchkiss portable 1909 MK I _303 UK 2.jpg )
108281
>> No. 108282 ID: 5435b6
File 155085437956.jpg - (1.75MB , 2700x1323 , French WW1 Hotchkiss portable 1909 MK I _303 UK 3.jpg )
108282
>> No. 108283 ID: 5435b6
File 15508544737.jpg - (152.33KB , 1600x616 , French WW1 Hotchkiss portable machine gun Model MK.jpg )
108283
>> No. 108284 ID: 5435b6
File 155085494514.jpg - (73.34KB , 1297x863 , Danish Madsen Model 1903 Machine Gun, US Trials.jpg )
108284
Danish Madsen Model 1903 Machine Gun, US Trials.
>> No. 108285 ID: 5435b6
File 155085564113.jpg - (46.08KB , 1000x601 , German WW1 Bergmann MG-1915 7_92x57mm 1.jpg )
108285
German WW1 Bergmann MG-1915 7.92x57mm LMG.
Aka the MG-15nA or neuer Art (new pattern).
>> No. 108286 ID: 5435b6
File 155085649836.jpg - (99.17KB , 1920x944 , German WW1 Bergmann MG-15nA light machine gun (1).jpg )
108286
Bergmann MG 15nA light machine gun
Development: The MG 15, not to be confused with the 1930s weapon of the same designation, was a German answer to the American Lewis light machine gun. Like the similarly named but entirely different MG08/15 (based on the Maxim gun), it was a compromise redesign derived from a heavy machine gun, but unlike the 08/15, it did away with a heavy water cooling system in favour of a slotted barrel jacket. The weapon's designer was Louis Schmeisser, father of the famous Hugo Schmeisser, known for creating the first submachine gun ever issued (the MP 18,1), amongst other designs. Machine guns are almost always designed to fire with an open bolt, allowing cold air to cool the mechanism and prevent overheating. Unusually, the MG 15 was redesigned to fire when its mechanism was closed, creating the MG 15nA (neue Art - new Model). This change of approach was necessitated by the unreliability of the open bolt version. Both versions were also developed as aircraft machine guns, where cold air at altitude negated cooling problems. For air service, the rate of fire was boosted to 800 rounds per minute, increasing the probability of a hit on an enemy aircraft. https://collections.royalarmouries.org/first-world-war/type/rac-narrative-55.html
>> No. 108287 ID: 5435b6
File 155085652117.jpg - (102.51KB , 1920x1001 , German WW1 Bergmann MG-15nA light machine gun (2).jpg )
108287
Use and effect
Though substantially (5 kg / 11 lbs) lighter than the MG 08/15, the MG 15 did not replace it in service, and saw relatively little German use on the ground, being more successful as an aircraft machine gun. However, a number were issued to the Asia Korps sent to assist the Ottoman army, and may also have been supplied directly. The closed bolt redesign solved inherent reliability problems with the design, but would have made for a less effective machine gun, requiring that it be periodically allowed to cool. The primary advantage of the Bergmann aside from low weight was that it could be fed from various standard lengths of belt. This included a 100-round belt inside a 'Kurbel' drum holder clipped to the side of the weapon. This was more convenient than a long dangling belt, but gave more than twice the capacity of the enemy Lewis gun. The weapon also pioneered the use of disintegrating metal links, which later replaced cloth belts and are now a standard feature. These are clipped together with rounds of ammunition, and break apart on firing, being ejected from the weapon along with the empty cases. When necessary, new lengths of belt can easily be created by collecting the used links and clipping them together with fresh rounds.
>> No. 108288 ID: 5435b6
File 155085655014.jpg - (152.11KB , 1920x1134 , German WW1 Bergmann MG-15nA light machine gun (3).jpg )
108288
Action / Operating systemRecoil
Barrel length71.6 cm (28.2 in)
Calibre / Bore7.92x57mm (.31 in)
Capacity (rounds)100, 200, or 250
Country of manufactureGermany
Crew1
Date entered service1915
Effective range400 m
FeedBelt
ManufacturerBergmann Industriewerke
Muzzle velocity892 m/s (2925 fps)
Other operatorsAustria-Hungary
Other operatorsOttoman Empire
Overall length1.12 m (44.1 in)
Primary operatorGermany
Rate of fire (rounds per minute)500
Weight12.9 kg (28.4 lb) (with bipod)
>> No. 108289 ID: 5435b6
File 155085658731.jpg - (167.83KB , 1831x1920 , German WW1 Bergmann MG-15nA light machine gun (4).jpg )
108289
>> No. 108290 ID: 5435b6
File 155085660460.jpg - (145.03KB , 1920x1084 , German WW1 Bergmann MG-15nA light machine gun (5).jpg )
108290
>> No. 108291 ID: 5435b6
File 155085663369.jpg - (216.09KB , 1920x1280 , German WW1 Bergmann MG-15nA light machine gun (6).jpg )
108291
>> No. 108292 ID: 5435b6
File 155085665964.jpg - (168.28KB , 1920x1280 , German WW1 Bergmann MG-15nA light machine gun (7).jpg )
108292
>> No. 108293 ID: 5435b6
File 155085667657.jpg - (143.92KB , 1920x1280 , German WW1 Bergmann MG-15nA light machine gun (8).jpg )
108293
>> No. 108294 ID: 5435b6
File 155085671277.jpg - (137.16KB , 1920x1634 , German WW1 Bergmann MG-15nA light machine gun (9).jpg )
108294
>> No. 108295 ID: 5435b6
File 155085690526.jpg - (166.08KB , 1080x991 , German WW1 Bergmann MG-15nA light machine gun crew.jpg )
108295
German machine gun squad with a Bergmann MG15 n.A (WW1)
>> No. 108309 ID: a0aa33
  Project Lightening Episode 05: Reload https://youtu.be/Eee7-5Oo0nU
>> No. 108310 ID: a0aa33
  Project Lightening Episode 06: Total Damage https://youtu.be/xnKy_BSOZys
>> No. 108311 ID: a0aa33
File 155136729680.jpg - (99.77KB , 800x488 , US WW1 Hotchkiss M1909 Benet-Mercie Machine Rifle .jpg )
108311
So... if you were the US Secretary of War in 1917, what light machine-gun would you buy to equip the American Expeditionary Force (the BAR will not yet be released)?

Pic: American use of a French designed Hotchkiss M1909 Benet-Mercie Machine Rifle in .30-'06 (7.62x63mm).
>> No. 108312 ID: 9dcda2
  >>108311
I would have kicked Crozier in the dick and got Lewis guns for the boys.
>> No. 108314 ID: 28ae6e
  Project Lightening Episode 07: Conclusions https://youtu.be/TNJo0w43Wjc
Today we have the final conclusions, with a series blooper reel posted right now over on C&Rsenal:

https://youtu.be/19MACwIfPQQ
>> No. 108315 ID: 9dcda2
>>108314
Absolutely amazing. This really demonstrates how much of engineering is about compromise, and how the early designers were just guessing about what might work.

> What kind of operating system should we use?
> Short! No, LONG recoil! Or maybe gas piston and.... have it be the firing pin too!

One of my coworkers was asking me what to get as a first pistol. I recommended the HK VP9 like usual, and then explained that I have a Glock 43 as a tiny gun, and a CZ Shadow 2 as a big gun, and they do very different jobs.
>> No. 108329 ID: c6e452
  Project Lightening: After Action Report with Mark https://youtu.be/u8f3mOctY1E
>> No. 108330 ID: 534480
File 155257745289.jpg - (589.11KB , 1414x1265 , bipod Shooting Sticks, kneeling.jpg )
108330
I wonder if BAR gunners in WW1 used makeshift shooting sticks like hunters sometimes do to steady their guns.
Shooting sticks are teo or three sticks lashed together at an axis and a rifle is placed above this to steady it. I have seen shooting sticks that looked like old drumsticks tied together with string or crocheted yarn that worked quite well to steady rifles or shotguns.

BIPOD Shooting Sticks https://youtu.be/UNLzYIA3l4k
>> No. 108335 ID: 51b0a9
>>108330
Not even sure if my trip will work.. Greets from Paducah KY, nonetheless.


Anyhow- Biggest part of shooting the M1918 (not A1/A2) is recoil control
When you hit the trigger, there is a dwell time as the gas rod (carrying the bolt) moves forward to chamber and fire the cartridge. It's pretty significant, as in "if you've fired a flintlock, a M1918 is nothing".

So, you take your marksman BAR gunner and give them some pokeysticks.
IF and only IF they really know their shit, will said bitsa make a difference. You HAVE to practice followthrough.

But. If you do this the M1918 is stupidly accurate. I mean "hand this to a well trained 'tard and he will cut ragged holes" kind of accurate.

The time of lock, and force of lock are amazing, plus the action will just about always set off a round, barring the worst of the worst.

This means that if the guy slapping the loud switch does his bit, the M1918 will put shots on target with annoying reliability.
>> No. 108336 ID: 66d4e9
File 155276829483.jpg - (452.77KB , 2570x811 , US WW1 Browning Automatic Rifle M1918 first varian.jpg )
108336
>>108335
Hi, Meplat! Thanks for your input on the venerable M1918.
How have things been?
>> No. 108337 ID: d3cbb0
>>108335
Holy shit Meplat has returned.
>> No. 108357 ID: 51b0a9
>>108336

Enjoying Kentucky. I basically live in a bunker . A 1920's/30 concrete house, that looks like the Con of a pushboat.

Also- The fishing is much better. MUCH better. But the ranges are absurdly small.


>>108337
Just visiting.
>> No. 108358 ID: bbee29
>>108357
Would you mind chiming in on TNW MG34 and/or MG34s in general? I recently got one of the former and I'd love to hear any tips and tricks about getting it to work properly. The thread is over here.

http://www.operatorchan.org/k/res/106706.html#i106706
>> No. 108359 ID: 51b0a9
>>108358
Booster porting is very critical in the '34, especially when you get away from anything resembling 7,92mm SS/SmK.

That aside, look at the cam tracks, and make sure they are solidly staked and not worn. Then make sure the running surfaces are very smooth, and concentric.
Next whatever "other" ammo you intend to run it on, have a BUNCH of it. Once you get the piece functioning with it, you may (well, will, probably) find it does not work with other manufacturer's ammo of the same chambering.

Be aware that there is a huge variance in 7,62NATO (and similar) that did not really exist with 7,92 German ammo, when the thing as made, refined and manufactured. You will have issues, and will need to be flexible and patient if you intend for a semi-auto workup of a Mg34 to work with a broad spectrum of 7,62NATO fodder.
>> No. 108360 ID: bbee29
>>108359
I'm sticking to 7.92, right now the only thing I'm feeding it is PPU 198gr FMJ, keeping food consistent. I made a couple boosters with various port diameters, it's in the thread I linked. I just got some new firing pin springs so I'll see if I can use a lighter spring with the more open boosters, if not I'll go back to the stock spring and the more restricted booster.

Mechanically it's not bad, the issue I've had has been ejector pin length. I made a couple of those too, but the ejector pin I've been using is the TNW one. I've heard the real MG pins have a wedge-shaped tip that helps ejection, but I'm having a hard time tracking down a real one so I can modify the pins I have.
>> No. 108376 ID: 51b0a9
>>108360

Hit a SAR show. It's worth the trip if you like NFA stuff. It's about THE show for scoring odd/unusual NFA bitsa.
>> No. 108388 ID: 67cd4b
  For BAR fun, there's the 2019 Netflix movie The Highwaymen that follows Frank Hamer and Maney Gault (Kevin Costner and Woody Harrelson), two old Texas Rangers (bounty hunter contractors) who attempt to track down and apprehend notorious criminals Bonnie and Clyde in 1934. The real stars are the guns, of course. Costner walks in to a hardware store and buys an M1921AC Thompson submachine gun, an M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR), a Colt R80 Monitor (a Colt-manufactured variant of the BAR with a Cutts compensator), a Browning A5 semi-auto riot gun, a Remington Model 8 Autoloading Rifle, among other guns and a big crate of ammo. The highwaymen felt the need for serious firepower because the criminals they were chasing used the same kind of weapons against bank tellers, gas station attendants and cops they encountered. Clyde Barrow's preferred weapon was a custom cut-down model of a Browning Automatic Rifle and Bonnie used a Tommy gun.

The Governor of Texas might not like Hamer's expense report with this gun buying spree, but those guns certainly proved their effectiveness when Hamer's posse ambushed Bonnie and Clyde and turned them and their car into a bullet-riddled mess.

Hamer also just barely made his purchases before the passage of The National Firearms Act Of 1934 that regulates fully automatic weapons, suppressors, short-barreled rifles and shotguns, and destructive devices such as bombs or grenades. The NFA was subsequently modified in 1968 by the Gun Control Act and in 1986 by the Firearm Owners Protection Act. The NFA imposes a tax of $200 for people who want to legally purchase the prohibited items. That $200 might not sound like much, but adjusted for inflation, it's approximately $3,500. Good thing this tax was not pinned to inflation!

The Highwaymen 2019- Buying All Guns!- Scene https://youtu.be/h2f_jW06Rtw
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1860242/
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Highwaymen,_The - movie firearms database
https://www.npr.org/2016/06/30/484215890/prohibition-era-gang-violence-spurred-congress-to-pass-first-gun-law
>> No. 108389 ID: 67cd4b
  The Highwaymen 2019 final shootout scene HD 1080p https://youtu.be/iJWOLjdKdGk
This scene was filmed at the exact same place in Louisiana that this actual event occurred. The film makers had to spread dirt over the now-paved road and plant more trees to make it more like it was in 1934.
>> No. 108390 ID: 67cd4b
  Timewatch - The Real Bonnie and Clyde https://youtu.be/cRYp6Xos79k
>> No. 108391 ID: 67cd4b
  Bonnie and Clyde (1967)
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4x7u91
Starring Warren Beatty & Faye Dunaway
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061418/
>> No. 108395 ID: 51b0a9
>>108388

The best BAR film is still "The Sand Pebbles". Steve McQueen kew his way around a M1918.
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