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File 141939959465.jpg - (2.54MB , 3216x4288 , 100_1953.jpg )
3605 No. 3605 ID: a6b004
So, as some folks may know, while I was out living in Kansas, I ran a pair of biathlons. The first was the Battleroads USA Zombie Destruction Run 'n Gun, the second was the Pawnee Run 'n Gun. Well, now I live in the Portland area, and I have decided that the spread of coke-bottle glasses, sweaters, and hippies needs to be countered by spreading a sport that involves guns, skill, manliness, and pain.

This will be my plans, updates, and ideas thread for the event as I get things progressing.

I'm going to be needing volunteers to help run the event itself, from range officers to help shooters through the stages, to folks to handle the start-stop times and scoring, to people to ladle out bowls of chili after the event, and so on. Hopefully, this is something that the West Coast posse of Opchan can get together and work on, because it'd be kinda cool if we ran this shit and it went off without a hitch.

Arfcom may have meetups and 3-gun range masturbation trips, but we're OPERATORchan, let's do something hardcore and then invite all of our friends.

Status so far: I have a POSSIBLE host for the event. If they're cool with it, I'll be driving out there in a few weeks to check the facilities out, take some pictures, and come up with a rough course for the run. A month or two after that, I'm going to need to get some folks (That's you guys) together to show up on a Saturday, set up the course, run it by ourselves, then walk back through it as a group and talk about what works and what doesn't.

Ideally speaking, we'll have the rough logistics figured out by Summer 2015, and then it'll be time to advertise the hell out of this so that the event (which I'd like to have somewhere between Nov 2015 and Feb 2016) sells out the 50-75 tickets I'm going to cap things at.

My ideal course goes as follows:
1. Start line

2. Stage 1, a half-mile or so down the road: Objective is to hit a 8" steel plate target at 80-120 yards once each through all 7 holes of a VTAC board. (Because few people train for awkward shooting positions, and the VTAC board is a motherfucker the first time someone runs into one.)

3. Stage 2, another half-mile down the road: Objective is to hit a man-sized steel plate target 3 times at a LONG range that isn't known in advance. Think 400-600 yards. (Because anyone can hit something at 50 yards on a square range, regardless of things like zeroes, dope, and proper technique. At ten times that distance, you have to know what you're doing, or you will not hit the target, ever.)

4. Stage 3, a mile or so down the road/trail/whatever: A pistol stage, the objective is to hit a series of 5 8" steel plates once each at ranges from 10-25 yards from the designated areas and around/under/through a series of obstructions. This would be absolutely kick-ass if the host has a shoot house, but that's not a guarantee, so we may have to improvise. (You've run two miles, can you hold your hands steady enough to shoot?)

5. Stage 4, about 1/4 mile from the finish: Runner has to hit a man-sized plate target 2x each from a series of 3 designated areas. The first area is roughly 200 yards away, the second is 100 yards away, the third is 50 yards away, and the final position is at 25 yards, requiring a SAFE transition to pistol and two final hits on the target (because advancing on a target is the only way to take ground from the enemy).

6. Runner then runs back to the start line, where his unadjusted run time is recorded, after which he (or she, I'm not sexist) gets a T-shirt, a bowl of hot chili, and collapses. Probably not in that order.

That would give a run distance of about 5K, with a required round count of 16 rifle, 7 pistol. Very easy on the wallet, if the shooter knows what they're doing, and if I had the space, volunteers, and gear, I'd also add two more stages:

7. Man down: Shooter enters the stage, hits a 8" steel plate target posted at a distance of 50 yards, then slings his rifle and drags a weighted dummy 15 yards behind "cover" (simulated by a pallet or something) then his a 8" plate target at a distance of 15 yards with his pistol.

8. Triple-taps: Shooter engages a series of 12 paper plates at a distance of 5-25 yards with his rife, requiring three hits each, then transitions to his pistol and hits a steel plate at 10-15 yards four times.

That's where I'm at so far. I'll keep this thread updated as things progress.

If there's anyone from NorCal who can clue me in on how easy it would be for CA gun owners to get across the board and compete, please let me know. Due to the potential host's location, I'd love for the CA folks to get in on this, bullet buttons and all, but if that's not possible for legal reasons, it would be better to know now.
Expand all images
>> No. 3607 ID: a6b004
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Host requires, for insurance purposes, that one of their staff be at each shooting stage (there will be four) and that all applicants submit an official application to TR (which requires either a CCW or other background check). That's sub-optimal, as is the requirement for lead-free frangible ammo, but they're not going to charge for the usage of the facilities, so my cost as the organizer (which has to be covered by the tickets) should be less than $2500, probably less than $2000.

If I can convince the involved parties to allow a few sponsors to set up booths in exchange for offsetting the cost of the race, that could go down further. I really need someone to get a big-ass bulk order of lead-free frangible ammo, then parcel it out to shooters at the site, since that would be a lot cheaper for the contestants than all of us buying it in small lots.

Assuming we can sell out the 50 slots we're limited to, we're looking at a cost of less than $75 for each ticket, even including a t-shirt and a post-race meal. But between OFF, Arfcom, Opchan, and getting as many of the local gun stores as I can to post a flyer in, I don't think it'll be too terribly hard to get 50 people to show up. All of the runs I've been at so far have that many, and we've go a lot more folks on the West Coast than we did in Oklahoma/Texas.

We're looking at next January for the event itself. I'm hoping they'll let folks camp onsite, that remains to be seen.
>> No. 3612 ID: d4df2e
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For Commiefornians, we can traverse state lines. It's just that we have a dog show of hoops to jump through if we want to bring back anything nice. If we do want to bring anything back nice, then it depends on what it is. The law mostly pertains to importing. They could give a rat's ass about what leaves the state, AFAIK.


For me, I'd really like to go. I've never been to Oregon and I should be in much better shape by then.
>> No. 3613 ID: 06f96c
I have wanted to do this for some time.

Totes down.
>> No. 3614 ID: 06f96c
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But you gotta call it:

"Cascadia Run and Gun" or some such thing.
>> No. 3617 ID: a6b004
OK, that clears a few things up, but it's still a good reason for me to keep per-stage round counts down. I'm trying to create a run where folks with bolt guns or CA-pattern semiautos can compete. Or Garands, etc.

Oh, don't worry, I'm definitely going to come up with a better name for it, I just haven't had the flash of inspiration yet.
>> No. 3618 ID: 06f96c
Houwabout "The hella bitchin' Cascadian power 5k tactical shoot-a-thon challenge" on an rivited to awesome logo crest with skulls, rifles, doug firs and maybe a dragon with "Dues Vult" written under it in old english with some umlauts thrown in for good measure.
>> No. 3619 ID: a6b004
I'll consider it.
>> No. 3620 ID: a6b004
Southern Cäscädiä Rün 'n Gün.

Because I'd probably get arrested if I called it the "Albert Johnson Memorial Footrace".
>> No. 3628 ID: c230be
File 142084769450.jpg - (1.86MB , 2448x3264 , image.jpg )
>8chan /k/ down
>check out opchan /k/
>PDX area shooters
>Cascadia fuck yeah

I think I'm found my new /k/
>> No. 3630 ID: 06f96c
The boards are a bit slow, but we have a fair amount of events and meetups among Cascadian operators.

Welcome my friend.
>> No. 3635 ID: d4df2e
I also noticed something. It's all rifle and pistol. Are we ignoring shotguns or is that just something infeasible or something you neglected?

Welcome, bro.

I've always wondered, what area do Cascadians consider to be Cascadia?

I kind of doubt I qualify being from the PRC South Bay area.
>> No. 3636 ID: a6b004
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They haven't returned my last email, I'm going to send them another.

They're intentionally being ignored. The reason being, they're not normally found in an infantryman's kit, and can't really do anything that a rifle or pistol can't.* The idea behind run 'n guns is that the contestant carries everything with him/her for the entire course, crossing the start line with all the weapons, ammo, gear, and et ceteras that may be required for the course.

This is intentionally in contrast to a 3-gun match, where weapons are pre-staged on the course so you shoot a couple pistol targets, then pull the shotgun out of the barrel, shoot a couple targets, then grab your rifle out of the next barrel, blah blah blah. Doing it that way allows people to use absurd, non-practical race-gun shit that just isn't going to work out in the field.

Pic related, can you imagine running a 5K in that? I can, but it involves the edges digging into my hips so bad I'm bleeding by the end of the race. And good luck low-crawling under barbed wire or through some tractor tires without screwing everything up and dropping shells everywhere.

And that's the whole point of this: It's a field trial of the contestant's skills, gear, and determination, intentionally meant to be hard, unpleasant, and to push the limits. The last one I did, I found out about 2 miles in that my right-side leg platform (which was comfortably snug at the start) pulled my belt down into my quad muscle. Guess how that felt at Mile 6?

Yeah, I don't use that piece of kit anymore.

*Outside of hunting, a shotgun isn't really much good. If you need to smack something across a field with a bullet, a rifle can do it far more effectively than a shotgun can, and if you're clearing a trench or house, an SBR works better than a rifle and can STILL hit that 500-yard target. I guess someone could carry a shotgun for the course if they wanted to, but there aren't really any stages where a shotgun would work better than a rifle.
>> No. 3637 ID: 06f96c
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Yea, sorry bro but the Bay is not Cascadia. We go about as far south as the Ell river watershed and Mount Shasta at the very extreme end. It is the Cascade range after all which technically ends at Mt Lassen from a plate tectonics standpoint.
>> No. 3644 ID: 88c72a
Well I hope they get back or something materializes. In Texas we've now got six events interspersed throughout the year so there is no off season to be lazy. It'd be nice if something could get going up there. I know ar15.com's /gd/ has a cola warrior run that is a bit closer.

Is there no way that you can do it on public use land with other board members? Who needs a sponsor if it's kept smallish?

I came in top 15 for the Pawnee spring 2015 run. You would have had a blast since it got down to 20 degrees, and the organizers had a big warm cauldron of Pozole'.
>> No. 3645 ID: a6b004
They have not gotten back to me. Who knows, they probably decided to in-house it and capitalize on a good idea.

I'm going to look into public land in OR/WA, as well as COSSA down in Bend. The problem becomes how to secure backstop zones for the stages, if a suitable location can be found.

What I need is a curved piece of semi-forested road, way out in the sticks, where we can set up stages shooting to the inside of a quarter-circle. That way, all the bullets go in the same general direction, and nobody will cross that line of fire.

Private land would be nice, but I don't know anyone.
>> No. 3646 ID: a6b004
They have not gotten back to me. Who knows, they probably decided to in-house it and capitalize on a good idea.

I'm going to look into public land in OR/WA, as well as COSSA down in Bend. The problem becomes how to secure backstop zones for the stages, if a suitable location can be found.

What I need is a curved piece of semi-forested road, way out in the sticks, where we can set up stages shooting to the inside of a quarter-circle. That way, all the bullets go in the same general direction, and nobody will cross that line of fire.

Private land would be nice, but I don't know anyone.
>> No. 3647 ID: 06f96c
IIRC here is hella BLM land around Bend/Redmond area
>> No. 3648 ID: a6b004
I'm going to look into that area, as well as places just north of the gorge.

I'd actually prefer WA because the laws are a bit more uniform than OR. Concerning OC and such, and state laws trump Federal there for national parks and forests.

Gives me an excuse to hike new places. I need to find a road to a hill I saw last week, it might be good enough for my purposes. Next week, anyways.
>> No. 3654 ID: a6b004
Alright, I have definitely found a good spot to have a run and gun.

The "North Fork Wolf Creek Road", off Highway 26 at mile marker 35 has multiple places to situate targets for rifle and pistol, including a long-distance shot from a hillside across a vally if we decide to carrry a big plate target there.

Now, to set a date for this: I'm thinking 15 August, which gives me plenty of time to acquire more steel plates and browbeat/bully/trick friends into coming. Also, that gives folks from elsewhere a while to plan for the drive here.

And of course, time to do lots of PT, so that one can actually run up the logging road with one's kit without having a heart attack.

I still don't have a standout idea for the name. The "Albert Johnson Memorial Footrace" is too murderous, the "Kill-a-mook Forest Run-n-gun" too likely to be misunderstood.

If you're interested, post in here if that date more or less works for you.

Bear in mind, I plan on running the course at least once a month just for training purposes, unless I find some place better. But, to make a big competition out of it, every six months is good enough.
>> No. 3655 ID: 613147
I'm loosely interested, in the "fat fuck with no LBE" sort of way. Then again, August is a ways out yet, so maybe I can rectify some of that. Won't be a competitor in any way, but it seems like it might be amusing regardless.
>> No. 3657 ID: a6b004
Don't worry about being competitive, just think of it as a training exercise. I've seen everyone from dads with kids to Moolticam marshmallows compete, and the winner's always someone that runs like a gazelle. The important part is to learn something, whether that be a weak spot in training or a new wayy to shoot.

And to have fun. Always a good time.

As for LBE, who cares. I've seen everything being tried, and part of the idea behind this is to test one's kit. War belts, vests, backpacks, leg rigs, this is a way for you to find out what works for you.
>> No. 3660 ID: a6b004
I got stir-crazy today, drove out and clocked the course in my car. It'll total 3.5-4 miles, the parts I couldn't drive included.

From starting line, it'll look like this:

1. Run up a logging road for roughly .5 miles.
2. Rifle stage: VTAC-style board at 75-100 yards. 8-inch gong, 1 hit through each hole. 5-7 rds.
3. Run another .25 miles up the hill.
4. Rifle stage: targets up a hill at 75, 100, and 225 yards. 8- inch gong, 2 hits each. 6 rds
5. Run back down the hill .25 miles.
6. Pistol stage: 8-inch gongs at 10, 15, and 25 yards. 2 hits each. 6 rds.
7. Run another .5 miles down the road
8. Pistol/rifle stage: using the provided rope, ascend the dirt embankment (it's probably 15 feet high, way too steep to get up without a rope) and engage 2 pistol and 1 rifle targets. Pistol, then transition to rifle, then pistol again. 2 hits each, 4 pistol, 2 rifle.
9. Run 2 miles down the logging road and up a steep motherfucker of a hill:
10: rifle stage: 4-5 targets at various distances and angles, from 50 to prolly 300+ yards. All man-sized, two hits each. 10rds.
11. Run partway back down the hill to the finish line, collapse, eat chili, and hydrate.

Total targets required: 9 8-inch gongs, 4 or 5 man-sized ones. I have two of the 8-inchers.
Minimum ammo required: 25 rifle hits, 10 pistol hits.

I'm going to give it a trial run in 3 weeks, 21March. I won't bother to set up all the targets first, but I'll at least run the course and pop off some rounds at each stage. The first cluster of stages is up and back down a clearcut hill, then there's a long run to the second hill, which is much better suited for long-range shooting.

After the Pawnee Run, I want a long run in the mix just to up the suck factor, but the last stage will be totally worth it. The second clearcut area has a pretty commanding hilltop, and room to engage targets a looong ways off, and at different angles ranges, and heights. The targets will be engaged in a non-linear order, too, and the shooter will have to reorient to a new position between shots.

Think of it as defending a hilltop from an assault. After running 3 miles to get there. Should be a fun stage.

The finish line is a lookout point with a pretty big clearing. Campfire if we want it, burn ban and heat notwithstanding, shade, and chow. Everything except the last stage is vehicle-access, so finishers can be shuttled back at the end.

All I need now is to acquire more targets, stands, and get the word out.

Oh, and do PT, because running up and down hills in my kit isn't going to be easy.
>> No. 3661 ID: a6b004
Oh, and I hope to have pictures up next week after range day.
>> No. 3663 ID: 796ffc
Kinda hard without a computer, man, but I'm working on it.
>> No. 3665 ID: a81cba
Further research reveals that the satellite imagery has not been updated since the latest round of logging. Not only is the logging road invisible, I have no way to estimate stage locations.
>> No. 3667 ID: c1c101
You can sometimes send google a message and ask them to update an area on the next pass. I don't know if they'll care to answer said request on a wilderness area, but they're usually pretty good about it when it comes to places where people live.
>> No. 3669 ID: a6b004
Interesting. I'll send them a message.
>> No. 3671 ID: b52eac
Talked to a dude, mentioned your event. Apparently there is a shop Pitt of the Yakima area that organizes "ranger runs" whichsound to be of the same sort of thing. And I had a lovely note with particulars on my phone that got munched. I may see the individual who relayed the information to me tomorrow.
>> No. 3672 ID: bb3c31

Name-wise, I've been trying to avoid military slang, other types of events, and tacticool lameness, which pretty much leaves me with:

The Southern Cascadia Run-n-gun, which will be described on the Facebook event page as a "four-mile (or so) biathlon comprising multiple handgun and rifle stages in which he the contestants must carry all their gear with them from start to finish."

I'll be working on that next week after I get pictures taken tomorrow or Sunday.

Soon, my friends.
>> No. 3673 ID: a6b004
File 142578376775.jpg - (4.82MB , 4128x2322 , 20150307_134527.jpg )
The last stage.

I walked around this hill with the dog today, checking backstops. Looks goodago.
>> No. 3674 ID: 1a21ff
Facebook page is up!


I still need a logo, so if anyone with shooping skills wants to create one, I want one.
>> No. 3677 ID: a6b004
Fb page has all the pictures up. I'll be doing all further organizing through it.

Still need to line up about a dozen 8" and 5 man-sized steel plate targets. Then stands for all of them. Which isn't free, but as long as I trickle them out, I can eat that cost the first go for targets that will get used for ten years.

I think I can keep costs pretty low unless we end up needing a porta-john. Some colored engineer's tape and some road marking paint for safety areas, I suppose, and lumber for target stands and 2 or 3 VTAC boards.

I'm currently unemployed, my job didn't work out. As soon as I find a replacement, I'm going to get a run of business cards made up to hand or to folks I met at the range, and I'll try to get some flyers printed out for gun ships to post.
>> No. 3678 ID: a6b004
File 142725741767.png - (1.58MB , 1117x691 , Angles of Fire - 1.png )
Uhhh, shit. Looks like Stage 2 will NOT be a rifle stage after all. Pistols...not a concern, but 7.62 NATO aimed upwards to begin with? Yeah, let's not do that.
>> No. 3680 ID: a6b004
It's Oregon. Most likely mildly warm with a high chance of rain. Weather-wise, the even will go on regardless unless that weather is "forest fire" and the roads are blocked off.
>> No. 3682 ID: a6b004
I need to find a local source for steel plate targets. I'm not worried about dropping $100 each for the five full-size targets and $20 each for the eight remaining gongs, but like hell am I going to pay to ship 400 lbs of steel anywhere. Oh, gotta throw in 4x4 post holders for another $20-$30 per, too, as well as a 4' chunk of 4x4 for each.

Since I'll be keeping the targets, I don't much care if the ticket stubs on the first even pay off all the targets and holders. BUT! If it turns out that I need to get a porta-john out there, that's gonna have to be covered by tickets and I'd hate to see them cost more than $25 unless we're getting T-shirts.

I've been here just over three months, I've yet to see rain that would actually pose a danger to anyone (from like drowning or a road washing out or something), especially on graded forest roads. I guess it could get muddy, but that's a normal thing in forests. Honestly? Folks'll be sweating hard anyone if they're actually pushing themselves. I ran the course a few weeks ago in a light rain at 65*F, it felt amazing once my shirt soaked through.

I highly doubt the coastal range of Oregon will see snow at 1500' elevation in late August.
>> No. 3683 ID: e6c121
You have the good fortune of joining us in one of the most mild winters in recent memory. Wasn't even that cold.
>> No. 3684 ID: a6b004
I moved here from KS, working night shift. "Cold" for me is sub-freezing weather with sustained 25-mph winds.
>> No. 3685 ID: c1c101
This guy is local. Might even be able to set up a bulk purchase to get a few bucks off. There are a few others that I can't think of off the top. I always see a couple guys selling steel at the gun show (there's a show at Portland Expo EVERY month, and a few others here and there) so if you hit up one of those you're bound to come up with some options.
>> No. 3687 ID: 06f96c
There will likely be no rain in AUG due to our warm season Mediterranean climate.

>> No. 3688 ID: e6c121
Don't forget to bring a cart or a couple of extra hands
>> No. 3689 ID: a6b004
I'm hoping for a few bucks off in exchange for advertising in the form of "Steel targets and holders purchased from (Whoever)."

"Provided by" would even better, but that's just wishing.
>> No. 3691 ID: 85304d
Remind me about the targets next time I see you. If nothing else, I can throw you some green.
>> No. 3693 ID: 9b4024
I just got an email back from the guy who organizes the Pawnee RNG. He offered a ton of good advice.

I need volunteers to work as range officers, but all range officers MUST be available for both Friday and Saturday, and must run/walk the course on Friday so they have an idea of what's going on. But hey, there'll be free food involved, and we can camp and have a campfire and shit.
>> No. 3694 ID: 9b4024
Oh, I also need a computer guy to run the scoring system for the day.

Two guys per stage, one at the start, and one at the end means a minimum of 12 volunteer slots. Two of whom don't need to do much more than sit in a chair.
>> No. 3954 ID: f2c4ed
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They just get postponed.

Having finally acquired GPS coords for the shooting pit in Olympia, I looked it up on giggle earf and found that it's almost as good as the spot down in Oregon.

So as soon as I've scouted it in person and on foot, I'll be resuming the ad campaign and begging people to come.

Gonna strip it down, though. Probably 3 stages, maybe 4 if I get enough people that want to participate. Looking back over the previous runs I've been at, I think we could cycle out ROs to cover the stages and get everybody through in one day. It's only a 5k, so even at a tactical mosey that'd take someone 1.5 hours. I'd still need six active ROs and start/finish line people, but we'll see what happens.

I'm tentatively looking at the first week of June for a date, I'll head south in a couple weeks to scout the area.

Do your PT!
>> No. 3955 ID: 85304d
No go, everything before stage four is in no shoot territory.
>> No. 3956 ID: f2c4ed

It can always be stage 1. Or we'll run down the hill, instead of up, and it'll stay the end. Or who knows, but damnit, that's some nice terrain, and I'm not giving up on bringing this sport to the PNW.
>> No. 3958 ID: 85304d
Oh, I don't mean to have you do that. There are some nice lines of fire up the road further. If you got a minute on Saturday the 26th, we should go take a drive.
>> No. 3960 ID: f2c4ed
Ehh, I think it'd be easier to just show up early for the night shoot and drive around.

And my truck's being a bitch, I need to work on it this weekend if it's not raining.

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