-  [WT]  [Home] [Manage]

[Return] [Entire Thread] [Last 50 posts]
Posting mode: Reply
Name
Email
Subject   (reply to 118245)
Message
File
File URL
Embed   Help
Password  (for post and file deletion)
  • Supported file types are: GIF, JPG, PNG, WEBM
  • Maximum file size allowed is 5120 KB.
  • Images greater than 300x300 pixels will be thumbnailed.
  • Currently 645 unique user posts.

  • Blotter updated: 2017-02-04 Show/Hide Show All

PBE Shield Stickers and Deagle Boltface Patches On Sale Now!



File 152442805471.jpg - (154.19KB , 744x478 , 3757525.jpg )
118245 No. 118245 ID: 225202
$8.63bn wasted on Russian "stealth fighter" fraud scheme
http://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/8-63-billion-advanced-fighter-aircraft-project-with-russia-put-on-ice-118042000029_1.html

>The proposal for India and Russia to jointly develop an advanced fighter — the eponymous Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) — has been formally buried. Business Standard has learnt that National Security Advisor Ajit Doval conveyed the decision to a Russian ministerial delegation at a “Defence Acquisition Meeting” in end-February.

>Doval and Defence Secretary Sanjay Mitra, who attended the meeting, asked the Russians to proceed alone with developing their fifth-generation fighter. They said India might possibly join the project later, or buy the fully developed fighter outright, after it entered service with the Russian Air Force.

>New Delhi and Moscow have discussed the FGFA since 2007, when they agreed that Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) would partner Russia’s Sukhoi Design Bureau (Sukhoi) in developing and manufacturing the fighter. In 2010, Sukhoi flew the fighter, called Perspektivny Aviatsionny Kompleks Frontovoy Aviatsii, or “Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation” (PAK-FA). Seven prototypes are currently in flight-testing.

>Russia said the PAK-FA met its needs, but the India Air Force (IAF) wanted a better fighter. So HAL and Sukhoi negotiated an $8.63-billion deal to improve the PAK-FA with the IAF’s requirements of stealth (near-invisibility to radar), super-cruise (supersonic cruising speed), networking (real-time digital links with other battlefield systems) and airborne radar with world-beating range. In all, the IAF demanded some 50 improvements to the PAK-FA, including 360-degree radar and more powerful engines.

>Defence ministry sources who played a direct role in negotiations with Russia say much of this money was earmarked for Indian production facilities for manufacturing 127 FGFAs, and for India’s work share in developing advanced avionics for the fighter. It also included the cost of four PAK-FA prototypes for IAF test pilots to fly.

>Now, the IAF has backed away from the FGFA because it argues the PAK-FA — which Sukhoi has been test-flying since January 2010 — is not stealthy enough for a fifth-generation combat aircraft.

>Aerospace analysts who support the PAK-FA reject this argument. They point out that the US Air Force F-22 Raptor, was built with an extraordinary degree of stealth, but that proved to be counterproductive, since it resulted in high maintenance and life-cycle costs. Burned by that emphasis on stealth alone, US designers de-emphasised stealth while building their latest fifth-generation fighter, the F-35 Lightning II. Instead, they focused on building its combat edge through better sensors, highly networked avionics and superior long-range weapons.

>The cancellation of the FGFA project has far-reaching implications for the IAF, for which this was once its high-tech future fighter. United Progressive Alliance (UPA) defence minister AK Antony had ruled out buying the F-35 Lightning II, arguing that India would have the FGFA to meet its fifth-generation fighter needs.

>Indian aerospace designers also cited the FGFA experience as essential learning for developing the indigenous fifth generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), which the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO) is pursuing.

>Now, the FGFA’s burial sets the stage for the IAF to eventually acquire the F-35 Lightning II, which comes in air force as well as naval variants. Indian military aviation, once overwhelmingly dependent upon Russian fighters, helicopters and transport aircraft, has steadily increased its purchases from America. On Tuesday, appearing before a US Senate panel for his confirmation hearings, Admiral Philip Davidson — nominated as the top US military commander in the Indo-Pacific, said the US should aspire to “break down” India’s historical dependence upon Russia.

>The IAF has been split down the middle on the FGFA. Broadly, flying branch officers of the “French school”– whose careers have centred on the Mirage and Jaguar fighters — have tended to oppose the FGFA. Meanwhile, officers from the “Russian school”, their careers grounded in the MiG and Sukhoi fleet, have supported the FGFA.

>Opponents of the FGFA have even argued that the project would duplicate and hinder the indigenous AMCA project. However, last July, an experts group headed by Air Marshal (Retired) S Varthaman, set up to consider this question, ruled that there were no conflict lines between the FGFA and AMCA. It stated that the technological expertise that would be gained from working with Russian experts would benefit the AMCA project.

>In co-developing the FGFA, HAL was expected to deploy its experience in working with composite materials, which were to replace many of the metal fabricated panels on the PAK-FA. India was also expected to participate in designing the 360-degree active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. In addition, the experience of flight-testing the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft would be refined by flight-testing a heavier, more complex fighter.

>These challenges were expected to imbue Indian engineers with genuine design skills, of a far higher magnitude than the lessons learnt from licensed manufacture.

>In addition, the FGFA’s foreclosure means the loss of $295 million that India sunk into its “preliminary design phase” between 2010 and 2013.
Expand all images
>> No. 118246 ID: 278cbe
File 152443872454.gif - (0.97MB , 389x259 , 15225623479402.gif )
118246
>Now, the FGFA’s burial sets the stage for the IAF to eventually acquire the F-35 Lightning II
>Opponents of the FGFA have even argued that the project would duplicate and hinder the indigenous AMCA project

>"stealth fighter" fraud scheme
>On Tuesday, appearing before a US Senate panel for his confirmation hearings, Admiral Philip Davidson — nominated as the top US military commander in the Indo-Pacific, said the US should aspire to “break down” India’s historical dependence upon Russia.

News of "cancellation" of FGFA has been appearing every odd month since the existence of the production plan has been confirmed, dating back to 2011. So did the allegations that it is not the 5th gen fighter but a cardboard dummy model.

https://thediplomat.com/2012/10/india-snubs-russia-on-fifth-generation-fighters/
>> No. 118248 ID: 18a9d9
Amazing as it is developing a fighter jet that can do all that really is super fukkin expensive and difficult. Seems pretty weird that we did it twice, Anyone know why the F-22 wasn't just modified to fit a few new mission profiles?
I wonder whats the Gen 6 stuff gonna have in if I'll live long enough to see it and how much they will cost.
>> No. 118250 ID: 278cbe
>>118248
There's no clear definition of Gen 6 plane yet, and one don't expect it to appear any time soon before current Gen 5 fighters are becoming somewhat more refined and widespread. Maybe in a decade or two it will be possible to tell. F-22 was pretty much mass-produced prototype from the end of Cold War, which established most of the definitions, but did not live up to them. As far as I am informed, it had enough problems with integrated combat systems and was not as effective as desired. I did not hear about any major modernization programs of it, but apparently there are some - still, one can pretty much expect that this plane will never see a live combat unless something is going to get very wrong with the whole world (cough cough). And F-35, by the looks of it, is even more complicated mess of international cooperation, modular design and mutually exclusive requirements, nobody really sure what is it and where it belongs to.
>> No. 118251 ID: 41441c
>>118246
>no guyz this bondo'd Su-27 that doesn't even have diverterless intakes is totally a stealth fighter and you need to send us another $500 in visa gift cards before we will let indian pilots fly it like we agreed

>>118248
The intention was the F-15 would be replaced by the F-22 (The F-22 was also seen as being a better base for a carrier fighter to replace the F-14 than the YF-23), the multirole light fighters would be replaced by the JSF, and the A-6, A-7 and possibly also the A-10 and F-111 would be replaced by the A-12 Avenger II.

Then the cold war ended. The A-12 was canceled by Dick Cheney for entirely logical reasons, and there was less money for everything else. The JSF thus ballooned in requirements: it now had to take on more of the strike mission than just replacing the F-16 and F/A-18, and it had to replace the Harrier for the Marines and our allies. And then later on F-22 procurement got cut so it had to take on more of the air superiority mission. Thus, the current mess.

I made a effort post the other day (>>118189) about why the F-35 got picked over the X-32, and why they were both doomed regardless due to the involvement of the jarheads.
>> No. 118252 ID: 278cbe
File 152452580258.png - (210.86KB , 602x451 , main-qimg-cc5004386ac54278c21276e79aa63169.png )
118252
>>118251
>diverterless intakes
Watching average American arguing about their technological superiority in the early 21st century is about as comical as observing Somalians building rocket to the Moon. The only superiority they have is ridiculously inflated military budget, built on fraud framework and riddled with corruption.

>send us another $500
F-35 development cost may be only 0.4 trillion dollars (just about ten times as much as FGFA plus T-50 may consume) without further urgent "modernizations" taken into account, and their unit cost with all the discounts is comparable to FGFA, but what is really important in this deal is MAINTENANCE COST.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a19620889/air-force-may-need-to-cut-a-third-of-f-35-fleet-due-to-high-operating-costs/

>With just over 250 joint strike fighters absorbed into the fleet already, the Defense Department is experiencing a number of problems sustaining the aircraft. In an October report, the Government Accountability Office laid out numerous challenges, including long maintenance times for parts, a spare parts shortage and delayed updates to the F-35’s logistics system.
>> No. 118254 ID: 199a2d
>>118252
is that you slavic thunder?
>> No. 118255 ID: 41441c
File 152454206754.jpg - (69.31KB , 602x451 , pakfa intakes.jpg )
118255
>>118252
>"unlike the F-22, F-35, J-20 and J-31, and most 4.5 gen fighters, the Su-57 doesn't have a basic feature of radar signature reduction"
>"IT IS AMERICA THAT IS SOMALIA NOT RUSSIA!"

lol you're projecting again.
>> No. 118258 ID: a71e4c
>>118252
Lol, stupid Americans not realizing that they're the real third world shithole, right? India + Russia = Future!

> stops shitting in the street just long enough to shit in the local water supply instead.
>> No. 118259 ID: 278cbe
File 152460070237.jpg - (311.38KB , 1240x930 , fregat-pr-11356.jpg )
118259
>>118255
>posting 7 years old photo that has been brought up a million times
As usual, Internet is full of people who can measure RCS of a plane by looking at it from some different angles.

>>118258
>Americans not realizing that they're the real third world shithole
Americans are so overconfident, they are not realizing a whole lot, for the lack of need to do so in recent history. In the time they aren't looking, even the third world shithole is going to catch up to them and knock them over. Luckily, though, it doesn't apply to a whole lot of them.

For once, apparently they are not realizing that overreliance on one technology (like "stealth" or "autonomous drones") can lead to subpar performance in several other areas of application (like "manoeuvrability" and "electronic warfare" respectively), which can as well nullify the whole technological advantage when confronted with more developed nation.

https://thediplomat.com/2018/04/india-to-buy-4-guided-missile-frigates-from-russia/
>India and Russia are set to sign a contract for the construction of four guided-missile frigates for the Indian Navy.
>The primary reason for Russia’s decision to export the three ships (…) is the lack of a propulsion system due to Ukraine’s decision to ban military exports to Russia in 2014.
>India, however, is not subject to the export ban and can directly purchase the propulsion systems from Ukraine.
Still a big question if Ukraine will have enough of working industry left to provide even significant part of propulsion systems.
>> No. 118261 ID: 4eee9d
File 152460563967.jpg - (357.84KB , 1024x681 , Pakistan_Air_Force_Chengdu_JF-17_Gu.jpg )
118261
>>118259
and yet Russia still can't design a aircraft with basic features that have proliferated to even budget fighters only used by Pakistan, Nigeria and Myanmar.
>> No. 118262 ID: 278cbe
File 152461150368.jpg - (80.33KB , 800x531 , Intake_2_zps73ed00b7.jpg )
118262
>>118261
>basic features
I don't think that 360-degree thrust vectoring, prevalence of composite materials and L-band radar is something that US designed considered basic, but uh, I mustn't need to remind you that Su-57 is more modern fighter than both F-22 and F-35.

Also, it seems like this "basic feature" you were talking about isn't something well-known to YF-23 prototype designers, maybe they inherited from Somalia engineer reserve.
>> No. 118264 ID: c98168
File 152461473665.png - (113.31KB , 1200x644 , 1447845069-976_Top-10-countries-without-access-to-.png )
118264
>>118262
Wow Russia is so advanced they can compete with a failed prototype from the 80s.

And check out these advanced grilles covering the aircraft that totally don't increase it's RCS, and the advanced WWII-vintage dumb bombs designed for subsonic aircraft, stored on advanced external pylons.
>> No. 118265 ID: c98168
File 152461503932.jpg - (193.47KB , 1016x1200 , DWmVX3jWAAEAF2j.jpg )
118265
>>118264
>> No. 118266 ID: 6e9258
File 15246400872.png - (18.45KB , 634x571 , c05.png )
118266
>>118264
>failed
Rejected, but not failed, mr. Somalian Engineer. And may I remind you, not for the lack of stealthiness.

>grilles
>external pylons
>WWII-vintage dumb bombs
Apparently Lockeed-Martin is a corporation so advanced it solely relies on moral superiority of it's fighters, not bothering with plain effectiveness of basic features anymore. It certainly will weight up to their attempts to sell their F-35 to India along with special Maintenance Procurement Plan and a bridge in Brooklyn.
>> No. 118269 ID: 5df1cf
File 152471569658.jpg - (22.17KB , 1000x666 , j-20_zhuhai_2016.jpg )
118269
>>118266
Wow guys did you hear that? Covering your stealth aircraft with things that make it reflect more radar signals actually makes it better. Didn't know that Lysenkoism extended to that bougie jew science known as physics, and that stealth aircraft designers in the US, China and Japan had it all wrong.
>> No. 118279 ID: 336722
lol (((someone))) deleted the post about slavic cancer's devotion to his slav enthno-nationalism and that he willingly lied to the police about being raped by jerry sandusky to cover up the crime because ">muh slavs" is more important to him than the truth. that type of surely has an objective point of view in this thread, but (((someone))) doesn't want us to find out.
facepalm.tiff
>> No. 118280 ID: 6e9258
File 152481651519.jpg - (155.90KB , 620x366 , 1144093015.jpg )
118280
>>118245
On the second thought, it seems that "experts" of Business Insider are about as competent in engineering as other visitors of this thread. They obviously confuse PAK-FA (aka Su-57) and FGFA programs - the first one is a original domestic project while FGFA is supposed to be an export version. What HAL implies by these "improvements" is that they want a final product much closer to the original version and Sukhoi demands a hefty payment for this service.

>formally buried
>Business Standard has learnt
>They said India might possibly join the project later, or buy the fully developed fighter outright, after it entered service with the Russian Air Force.
I am actually surprised they still use such evasive and ambiguous phrases instead of steadily stating the obvious misinformation they mean to convey. Maybe it is just an artifact of speech.

>>118279
>the truth
The truth is that a comfortable life of (((American))) population is leading them directly to the educational levels of Somalian engineers, which is demonstrated by following observation.

>Covering your stealth aircraft with things that make it reflect more radar signals actually makes it better.
Assuredly, as I noted above, the well-deserved title of Somalian engineer allows the laureate to judge the RCS of "things" attached to the aircraft by mere glance on the photo, if not the a description of functionality. All that while completely ignoring the fact that every developing aircraft, first and foremost, requires field testing, not photo sessions for popular magazines.

Americans are so sure of superiority of their weapons they have no idea what this actual superiority consists of. Sure thing, they would argue, the guided bomb with half a million dollar worth of equipment, GPS navigation and digital target recognition can strike the target 100 times harder than 5000$ dumb bomb dropped in the manner of WW2 warfare. But they're wrong, because they themself are victims of weapon a different kind - a high-tech, lazer-guided dementia.

http://tass.com/defense/962079
>Russia’s SVP-24 Gefest specialized computer sub-system has increased the bombing accuracy of Tupolev Tu-22M3 strategic bombers and enabled Su-24M bombers to use unguided munitions as high-precision weapons in the Syria operation

>The SVP-24 Gefest system analyzes data of the Glonass satellite navigation grouping on the mutual location of the aircraft and the target, takes into account the level of atmospheric pressure, air humidity, the wind speed, the flight velocity and some other factors to calculate the route, speed and altitude of dropping air-launched munitions, after which bombing is conducted in automatic mode
>> No. 118281 ID: 0112be
>>118280
>(((American)))
>"the jewish conspiracy is why Russia isn't a winner!"

Pretty ironic that Hitler was radicalized by Russian propaganda.

>the educational levels of Somalian engineers

https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/fake-diplomas-fake-modernization-1118
>Three weeks ago, NTV television reported that more than 70 engineers working at a Komsomolsk-on-Amur airplane factory in the Khabarovsk region had obtained fake engineering degrees from a local technical college. The high-security military plant, which belongs to state-owned Sukhoi, assembles the Su-27, Su-30 and Su-35 fighter jets, as well as the much-anticipated Superjet 100 passenger plane. The trade in fake diplomas is nothing new, of course, but the sheer number of employees involved was mind-boggling.

>Sukhoi management took a nonchalant attitude toward the scandal and refused to fire the employees, referring to a company rule that employees can be dismissed only for “grave crimes.”

"butbutbutbut it is america that is somalia!" *sukhoi superjet slams into mountain*

>The SVP-24 Gefest system analyzes data of the Glonass satellite navigation grouping on the mutual location of the aircraft and the target, takes into account the level of atmospheric pressure, air humidity, the wind speed, the flight velocity and some other factors to calculate the route, speed and altitude of dropping air-launched munitions, after which bombing is conducted in automatic mode

Wow good job Russia, you invented the CCRP computer the F-111 had in the 1960s except it doesn't work without GPS (that's less accurate than real GPS and BeiDou to the point where the Russian air force uses commercial Garmin maps.) Now maybe your pilots can spend more time training not to murder civilians instead of practicing to drop bombs on hospitals.
>> No. 118282 ID: 278cbe
  >>118281
>Pretty ironic that Hitler was radicalized by Russian propaganda.
Say people who supplied him with gas to exterminate civilians.

>Three weeks ago, NTV television reported
>Sept. 03 2010 - 00:09
Unfortunately the source of this information is never to be found. And you should really renew your fake news manuals, they are getting dusty.

>except it doesn't work without GPS
>less accurate than real GPS and BeiDou
Wow, a new technological insight from Somalian Engineer!
>> No. 118283 ID: e740e7
>>118282
>Say people who supplied him with gas to exterminate civilians.

We're talking about Hitler not Russia in Syria. :)

And let us not forget that Germany would not have been able to rearm without help from the Soviet Union under the treaty of Treaty of Rapallo that continued until 1941. And after the invasion of Poland it would have taken another year for Germany to replace lost material to prepare for the invasion of France, but Russia helped them resuply and ordered French communists to sabotage armaments factories in France. And after the occupation, unsurprisingly, those same communists were ordered to aid the Gestapo in hunting down resistance groups.

>Unfortunately the source of this information is never to be found. And you should really renew your fake news manuals, they are getting dusty.

Wow a news article from the past references things that happened previous to it and not the current date! Fake news! Lies against Russia!

>Wow, a new technological insight from Somalian Engineer!

BeiDou, Galileo and GPS are all accurate to within 5 meters in practice. GLONASS is barely accurate to 10 meters.
>"CH-CH-CHINA IS SOMALIA!" cries slavic thunder as his imam's jisim flows from his mouth like slobber


Unsurprisingly the Russian claims are bullshit and the SVP-24 is scarcely more accurate than CCIP.
https://corporalfrisk.com/2017/11/25/guest-post-accuracy-of-freefall-aerial-bombing/
>> No. 118284 ID: 278cbe
  >>118283
>We're talking about Hitler not Russia in Syria.
Apparently you are talking about Britain, who are now confirmed to supply Syrian jihadists with equipment and precursors for chemical weapons.
http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/04/26/559809/Syria-chemical-weapons-Germany-Britain

>And let us not forget that Germany would not have been able to rearm without help from the Soviet Union under the treaty of Treaty of Rapallo that continued until 1941.
Let us not forget that Germany was allowed to annex at least three territories without any visible retaliation and their escalation towards Eastern Europe was only temporary stopped by Red Army efforts, and no one else whatsoever.

>but Russia helped them resuply and ordered French communists to sabotage armaments factories in France
Wrong again, because it was pretty obvious British sabotage that allowed them to get rid of France and acquire their colonies under casus belli of "collaboration". You know, the ones better known as Libya and Syria and some others. And Vietnam.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Mers-el-Kébir
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Torch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Vietnam_(1945–46)

>GLONASS is barely accurate to 10 meters.
Except this information is long obsolete and current accuraccy is considered within same 3 meters average. Except it is a civil application for military system and their parameters for actual use are classified.

>scarcely more accurate than CCIP.
>Accuracy of Freefall Aerial Bombing
Apparently, "expert" only analyses a free-fall high-altitude areal bombing, especially because it has it's own a physical limit for dispersion of unguided bombs. However, it is also known that SVP-24 was designed for other methods of bombing like dive or even toss bombing, but Somalian Engineers don't bother themselves with these considerations.

In any case, the idea of "precision bombing" is overrated by US because it helps them to justify unlimited strikes on unsuspecting population, leading to the same level of collateral damage as a regular bombings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Sana%27a_funeral_airstrike
>> No. 118285 ID: 25e1a1
File 152486907971.jpg - (52.51KB , 700x420 , 149390534041-700x420.jpg )
118285
>>118284
>Let us not forget that Germany was allowed to annex at least three territories without any visible retaliation and their escalation towards Eastern Europe was aided by the Red Army.

FTFY.
>After the Government of the German Reich and the Government of the USSR have, by means of the treaty signed today, definitively settled the problems arising from the collapse of the Polish state and have thereby created a sure foundation for a lasting peace in the region, they mutually express their conviction that it would serve the true interest of all peoples to put an end to the state of war existing at present between Germany on the one side and England and France on the other. Both Governments will therefore direct their common efforts, jointly with other friendly powers if occasion arises, toward attaining this goal as soon as possible.

>Should, however, the efforts of the two Governments remain fruitless, this would demonstrate the fact that England and France are responsible for the continuation of the war, whereupon, in case of the continuation of the war, the Governments of Germany and of the USSR shall engage in mutual consultations with regard to necessary measures.

No wonder Russia has continued to be the world's foremost supporter of national socialism since 1945.
>> No. 118286 ID: 6e9258
File 152489480277.jpg - (150.24KB , 800x583 , Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-H12478,_Obersalzberg,_Münch.jpg )
118286
>>118285
>was aided by the Red Army
Polish army, actually. They also planned to occupy parts of USSR after they'd invade it together with Germans. Serves them right after all, too bad so many civilians died because of their irresponsibility.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Polish_Non-Aggression_Pact
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Czechoslovak_border_conflicts#Annexations_by_Poland_in_1938
https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/research/mlg09/did_ussr_invade_poland.html

>No wonder Russia has continued to be the world's foremost supporter of national socialism since 1945.
>since 1945
ROFL. US and Britain has been supporting Nazis since the beginning of their rule and continued to hire former collaborators for their own purposes untile the end of Cold War. They still do support them as long as it benefits NATO.

But I digress.
https://taskandpurpose.com/f-35-yak-141-freestyle-vtol-jet/
>After the Yakovlev-Lockheed partnership was publically revealed in 1995 and formally ended in 1997, but the Yak-141’s unique designs persisted. When Lockheed entered a VTOL variant of its X-35 demonstrator into the Pentagon’s Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) in 1994, the submitted engine design proposal was radically different from initial proposal developed prior to the Yakovlev deal. Indeed, the VTOL design was changed to ‘ASTOVL Configuration 141’; while it is possible that this name was a coincidence, it’s worth noting for the possible reference to the Yak-141.
Some people do argue that F-35 was a flawed design from the beginning. Some even go as far as to claim it was a secret plan to undermine US jet fighter capacity by providing them these flawed designs. But only uneducated third-world engineers would deny that LM extracted a lot of information from their cooperation with partners from former USSR.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/india-re-opens-competition-to-supply-110-fighters-447392/
>Facing a 3 July deadline, responses are expected from the Boeing F/A-18E/F Block III, Dassault Rafale F3R, EurofighterTyphoon, Lockheed Martin F-16 Block 70, United Aircraft Corp MiG-35 and Saab Gripen E.
Meanwhile, it becomes more obvious that IAF isn't going to buy the shaggy F-35 deal and will rely on modern 4+ technology, going as far as to chose MiG-35 as one of possibilities. While US is dreaming about pumping billions out of India, they may as well be sidelined by less sophisticated contracts.
>> No. 118287 ID: 6e9258
File 152489480280.jpg - (150.24KB , 800x583 , Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-H12478,_Obersalzberg,_Münch.jpg )
118287
>>118285
>was aided by the Red Army
Polish army, actually. They also planned to occupy parts of USSR after they'd invade it together with Germans. Serves them right after all, too bad so many civilians died because of their irresponsibility.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Polish_Non-Aggression_Pact
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Czechoslovak_border_conflicts#Annexations_by_Poland_in_1938
https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/research/mlg09/did_ussr_invade_poland.html

>No wonder Russia has continued to be the world's foremost supporter of national socialism since 1945.
>since 1945
ROFL. US and Britain has been supporting Nazis since the beginning of their rule and continued to hire former collaborators for their own purposes untile the end of Cold War. They still do support them as long as it benefits NATO.

But I digress.
https://taskandpurpose.com/f-35-yak-141-freestyle-vtol-jet/
>After the Yakovlev-Lockheed partnership was publically revealed in 1995 and formally ended in 1997, but the Yak-141’s unique designs persisted. When Lockheed entered a VTOL variant of its X-35 demonstrator into the Pentagon’s Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) in 1994, the submitted engine design proposal was radically different from initial proposal developed prior to the Yakovlev deal. Indeed, the VTOL design was changed to ‘ASTOVL Configuration 141’; while it is possible that this name was a coincidence, it’s worth noting for the possible reference to the Yak-141.
Some people do argue that F-35 was a flawed design from the beginning. Some even go as far as to claim it was a secret plan to undermine US jet fighter capacity by providing them these flawed designs. But only uneducated third-world engineers would deny that LM extracted a lot of information from their cooperation with partners from former USSR.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/india-re-opens-competition-to-supply-110-fighters-447392/
>Facing a 3 July deadline, responses are expected from the Boeing F/A-18E/F Block III, Dassault Rafale F3R, EurofighterTyphoon, Lockheed Martin F-16 Block 70, United Aircraft Corp MiG-35 and Saab Gripen E.
Meanwhile, it becomes more obvious that IAF isn't going to buy the shaggy F-35 deal and will rely on modern 4+ technology, going as far as to chose MiG-35 as one of possibilities. While US is dreaming about pumping billions out of India, they may as well be sidelined by less sophisticated contracts.
>> No. 118294 ID: 0c2d81
File 152493810890.png - (574.39KB , 1132x890 , iKW4RGI.png )
118294
>>118286
>>118287
>muh nazi propaganda says you're wrong and Russia is innocent and the victim of evil Poland! see I posted it twice so it must be true!

lmao
>> No. 118295 ID: 0c2d81
File 152493897337.jpg - (756.29KB , 1920x1080 , vj101e.jpg )
118295
Also the Yak-141's engine was stolen from the design for a German VTOL fighter from the 70s that was also later used in the design for a proposed Convair light fighter. Somalian Russians taking credit for work they didn't do yet again.
>> No. 118305 ID: 278cbe
File 152509736479.jpg - (374.74KB , 1024x750 , SOS-RAM_chart3.jpg )
118305
People usually think that stealth technology makes planes almost 100% invisible, but it is only true for limited amount of conditions. It is because they usually don't know about things like Huygens principle and their implication in application to the radio wave reflection, diffraction and so on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huygens–Fresnel_principle

They'd rather think that the principle is as simple as it looks (shine a light on the plane and it reflects it away) and the less developed nations are just stupid if they can't do the same. But they are wrong. It is them who are stupid.

1. Picture related.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dragon029/comments/5ajfko/stealth_part_3_the_magic_behind_radarabsorbing/

>Theory suggests what lies beneath. Within the triangular wedge is a lightweight material, such as glass-fiber honeycomb, loaded with carbon in a concentration that increases from tip to base. Impedance therefore decreases from air at the tip to zero at the conductive surface behind it. This allows surface currents to transition slowly rather than abruptly, as well as be absorbed. This arrangement suppresses three contributors to RCS: edge waves by slowing surface current transitions; traveling waves by absorbing the currents; and edge diffraction by absorbing incident radar waves. RCS drops significantly from every angle and particularly at off-normal angles.

As it was mentioned before, Su-57 is using up to 70% of composite materials.

2. There's more on that in general terms.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dragon029/comments/5aj5m6/stealth_part_2_physics_and_progress_of/

>Rayleigh Scattering

>Once the wavelength grows past this point, the specifics of target geometry cease to be important and only its general shape affects reflection. The radar wave is longer than the structure and pushes current from one side of it to the other as the field alternates, causing it to act like a dipole and emit electromagnetic waves in almost all directions. This phenomenon is known as “Rayleigh scattering.” At this point, the RCS for many shapes will then decrease with the fourth power of the wavelength.

>While the processor details for the S-400 SAM and Su-35 fighter are not known, the manufacturers’ information suggests the ranges of their X-band fire-control radars cannot be extended significantly. Almaz-Antey’s quoted range for the S-400’s Gravestone radar of 250 km for a 4m2 RCS target is specifically stated as with designation from the Big Bird search radar. The S-400’s Big Bird can detect 1m2 targets at 338 km (equivalent to 478 km for a 4m2 target) and designate 4m2 targets at 390 km, and still Gravestone’s detection range is less. As for the Su-35’s Irbis-E, it only detects a 3m2 target at 400 km in a special narrow-angle, maximum-power search mode; detection range in standard search is half that. This suggests the higher figures for both systems are achieved only when the radar already receives external cueing.

Apparently they are not very much aware that while Americans mostly abandon analogue systems in favour of digital ones because they are difficult to work with, Russian electronics never really stopped improving them since S-300 generation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interferometric_synthetic-aperture_radar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolchuga_passive_sensor

As you may imagine it is a very old technology and even though US did buy Ukraine with all of it's industry, technology, population and land, they are decades behind similar systems that may be employed by modern armies.

3. Further increase in quality and stealthiness can be achieved by application of certain materials that can demonstrate unusual qualities - that means metamaterials are going to improve it further.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWdPuma1APA

https://www.forces.net/news/star-trek-inspires-next-generation-us-stealth-bombers

>Currently, the Russians are the leaders in the ‘shadow’ aircraft field.

>Their aircraft can vanish from radars completely, while their own hypersensitive radars have a huge range of up to 340 miles.

Though that looks like rather overblown plead to funnel more funds into the technology rather than a sincere compliment. This is rare event when propaganda switches from negative mode of operation to positive and causes people to wrack their brains for several minutes before they forget everything all over again, leaving a faint impression of being slightly disturbed.
>> No. 118306 ID: 41441c
File 152512362721.jpg - (45.83KB , 500x625 , ZAjGAKN.jpg )
118306
>>118305
>my citations are reddit and wikipedia
>> No. 118307 ID: 278cbe
File 152521273419.jpg - (532.55KB , 2000x1333 , 15246680479471.jpg )
118307
>>118306
>my sources are business journals and /pol/
Boy, where do we even start.
>> No. 118308 ID: a8533b
>>118295
>>118295
You would have a solid point with the Yak-38 Forger and the West German VFW VAK 191B

The Yak 141, while it took engine cues from the VJ 101E, is still unique because it was the first production supersonic V/STOL fighter, and it had similar capabilities/sensors/avionics to a MiG-29, fielding Active Radar AAM's and intended for a fleet air defense role. That said that capability cost it and it has a 5700lb payload as opposed to the AV-8B's 9,200lb payload
>> No. 118309 ID: da4dc7
File 152531900496.jpg - (72.50KB , 754x519 , VJ 101E.jpg )
118309
>>118308
And compared to the VAK 191 the VJ 101 series would have been a fast interceptor. The prototypes built, the 101C, were essentially a F-104 with rotating engine pods on the wing tips while the 101E was more conventional. The Convair 200 was essentially a F-16 style light fighter with a 3 bearing exhaust and two lift engines, just like the Freestyle.

And the Freestyle never went into production and only two of the four prototypes ever flew. Only one of them seems to have even had a radar fitted, with the scope just crammed in on top of instrument panel next to the HUD, and the stores separation and supersonic VTOL tests were canceled. Saying the F-35B is a copy of it is like saying the British invented the MiG-15 because the Russians couldn't figure out how to make jet engines so they bought them from the British.
>> No. 118310 ID: 6e9258
File 152533112588.jpg - (225.03KB , 1024x768 , 1024px-OK-GLI_Technik_Museum_Speyer_2008_12.jpg )
118310
>>118309
>Saying the F-35B is a copy of it is like saying the British invented the MiG-15
I never said that, though, I only quoted the suggestion that one design was heavily influenced by another in a legal, licensed way. Contrary to that, "copying" is not something you can attribute to relation between VJ101 and Mig, because copying implies access to manufacturing technology and blueprints, not the concept itself.

"Copying" was a late post- Cold War fad in the competence area of Somalian Engineers of the Internet, which was in favour about 10 years ago. It ontologically originates from post-cold war idea of Chinese copying of the western-designed products - often contrafactual, illegal or inferior in quality. Said engineers would compare some western-produced designs with ones from USSR and declaring it was a "copy" on the basis of several distinct features. For example, all USSR cars were copies of Western cars because they had 4 wheels. Or, all USSR computers were copies of Western computers because they've had QWERTY keyboards. Because you have to literally forget how to use your eyes, to see how this argument is valid in any specific situation.

https://www.calvertjournal.com/features/show/3665/Cold-War-innovation-tech-espionage-industrial-design

They claim that these designs were "stolen" by some invisible and omnipresent force of communist magic, despite the fact that to actually access the technology, you have to use blueprints, manufacturing technology, licensing, material science and so on. Also they claim, for the same reason, that any copy is always intrinsically inferior to the original, because, you know, it is a copy. Meanwhile, what is actually worth copying, is not general definition of "design", difference in which is always obvious for every 5 year old boy, but the technology itself. Which US had no shame in actually copying/stealing on every opportunity, while constantly banning their own technology from exports and accusing everybody of "unfair" competition. Naturally, the only competition they accept is the one they win.

With development of newer technologies, older ones become easily available in different forms. That is why, for Chinese, it was easy to reproduce, steal, or license old and conventional Western (and Soviet) designs, most of which were produced there already. For once, USA and USSR always had the latest aerospace technology, both of which originate in a large part from German rocket science project, but there's always a spin in these areas. While US captured German scientists and used their ideas and plans to manufacture their own space program, the Soviet program was aimed first at reproduction of German designs and then onto completely independent technology. Or comparison between Buran and Space Shuttle. While Space Shuttle had it's own engines to ascend to orbit, it was a complete brick when falling back on the landing strip. The Buran, on the other hand, did not have ascension assist, but it's flight quality was so much better, and its test model with engines was capable of self-supported flight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approach_and_Landing_Tests
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OK-GLI
Yes, it is not a fucking Buran on the picture, it is a test model with mounted engines.
>> No. 118311 ID: 6e9258
File 152533202846.jpg - (9.93KB , 250x314 , Станкявичюс,_Римантас_Анта.jpg )
118311
This is Rimantas Stankevičius, a test pilot of Buran Prototype OK-GLI and a Honoured Test Pilot of the USSR. Born in 1944 in Luthuania, 5 days before it was liberated by Red Army, died in September 1990, 3 days after Lithuanian declaration of independence was admitted by USSR. Today, the best flight Latvian pilots can allow themself to flight is Soviet-built An-2 aka "crop duster", a single plane that remains operational in their air force.
>> No. 118312 ID: fb780a
File 152537316679.jpg - (352.31KB , 1200x871 , 1*5AUS0wyQHNcX80jouPm6eA_jpeg.jpg )
118312
>>118311
>having a air force vs being russian chattel slaves

hmm, such a "hard" choice.
>> No. 118313 ID: 09c7e0
>>118311
i have trouble telling the difference between lithuanaia and latvia too
>> No. 118314 ID: 278cbe
File 152538494027.jpg - (30.75KB , 618x324 , Banker-smoking-cigar-dollar-USD.jpg )
118314
>>118312
Sure mang, being American slave just pays better.
At least until they bring in the accountants.

>>118313
I should probably sleep a bit better.

>26 July 1944
>On 6 September 1992, the USSR recognised the Independence of Lithuania

>Combat Aircraft
>Aero L-39Czech Republiclight attack2
>Transport
>Alenia C-27JItalytransport3
>L-410Czech Republictransport1

That'd be better, but still, pretty much an anecdotal case.
>> No. 118315 ID: 41441c
File 152539295356.png - (11.56KB , 380x246 , 8u6emyqxjkjx.png )
118315
>>118314
>no guys they were so much better off with the Soviet government expropriating 90% of their labor to pay for Islamic terrorism and palaces in Moscow!
>also Russia is EXTREMELY THREATENED by a country with jet trainers and a couple thousand active duty personnel joining NATO!
>> No. 118438 ID: ca3863
All Su-57 orders past the original 12 ended, "it doesn't make sense to continue and the Su-35 is totally cool and great and all Russia needs" says sweating deputy prime minister.
http://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=0&nid=485080
>> No. 118439 ID: 278cbe
>>118438
http://www.defenseworld.net/news/22822/Russian_Aerospace_Forces_Orders_12_Su_57_Stealth_Fighters#.WzqKnxf4mUk
>news: air force orders a test party of new fighters, until new generation of engines will be completed
>shills: REEE SUKABLYAT IS KILL
Good fella, come over to the ditch to feast on this horse with us.
>> No. 118440 ID: 1c7ec8
>>118439
>interfax is FAKE NEWS!!! ur a SHILL!

Read the article. Those 12 will be the only ones they're buying until 2027. The Su-57 was never anything more than a prestige project (that's made Russia look like a teenager putting a spoiler on a Honda Civic to turn it into a "race car") and a scheme to defraud the Indian government.
>> No. 118441 ID: 6e9258
>>118440
Read the fucking news. Nobody said anything about canceling the project, or even cancelling any of the orders, of which there only one at the moment.

>prestige project
>a scheme to defraud
You want to hear something about that, you better ask Canadians with their super-double-next-generation fighter.
http://fighterjetsworld.com/2018/06/21/the-rise-of-the-6th-generation-super-arrow/
>> No. 118445 ID: 95b638
>>118441

That's not what Canada is doing. An Avro 2 was floated by a group like four years ago, maybe try sourcing something that isn't on the level of a livejournal entry...
>> No. 118450 ID: 41441c
>>118445
The "Arrow 2" stuff is also a long-standing joke by Canadian aviation enthusiasts making fun of the people who worship it like the M113 Gavin and think it would have been the bestest airplane ever and spend all their time making CGI renders of ~what might have been~.

Like back when the Canadians decided they needed new maritime patrol aircraft, somebody submitted a proposal that was a kit model of a Avro Arrow with pontoons.
>> No. 118495 ID: 104512
File 153348766569.jpg - (67.12KB , 1200x675 , 1119.jpg )
118495
Can't even afford to buy new tanks.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/22600/russia-cant-afford-its-new-t-14-armata-tanks-turns-to-updated-older-designs-instead
>“We don’t really need to for this, these models are quite expensive in relation to existing ones,” Russian Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov explained to reporters to reporters on July 30, 2018. “Well, why flood the all Armed Forces with the Armata tanks, we have the T-72s in great demand in the market, they take it all, compared to the Abrams, Leclercs and Leopards, for their price, efficiency, and quality.”

I'm sure there are many Iraqi tankers who faced the Abrams in 91 who will agree.

oh wait

they can't

they're dead

(inb4 'but monkey models', Saddam got the big boy versions)
>> No. 118497 ID: 278cbe
  >>118495
>but these aren't the true Abrams tanks, they are local production versions abloo bloo bloo
>yfw mericans continue to jerk off at "victory" against unsupported, untrained, undisciplined, unequipped, unsupplied and corrupt "army"
You know, US military proves that it's perfectly fine when you don't have next generation tanks because they are too expensive, and just continue to refine the same old shit you've been given 30 years ago. At the very best, you can give them to your "freedom fighters".
>> No. 118499 ID: c025da
  >>118497
Awww, looks like Ivan can't tell the difference between blowout panels and his country's shoddily designed tanks where the crew literally sits inside the ammo rack.
>> No. 118501 ID: 6e9258
File 15335414043.jpg - (31.74KB , 599x337 , Houthis YA capture 2 Saudi M1 Abrams tanks & 1.jpg )
118501
>>118499
If your tank has it's rack blown up, it is as good as destroyed for the rest of the battle and many weeks after. You can haul it over to repair station, have it's equipment replaced and electronics rewired, crew sent to hospital, hull repainted and holes plugged, and then you can pretend nothing happened. Unless, of course, it was hit by howitzer shell and is blown open from front to rear. But if you lost the battle, all bets are off and, oops, you are in legit losses category.
>> No. 118529 ID: 6e9258
File 153389450468.jpg - (99.88KB , 975x568 , 22-Upgrade-file.jpg )
118529
Predictably, it all ended up in huge scandal over corruption and meddling.

https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/rafale-deal-explodes-on-one-person-251083

>Shourie said: "The joint statement by Modi and French President Macron said - 'the aircraft and associated systems and weapons would be delivered on the same configurations as had tested and approved by the Indian Air Force. The old deal had everything. In fact, buying aircraft in flyaway condition should be cheaper as setting up infrastructure to build them in India by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd would have pushed up the cost. Also, they said the first batch of fighter jets would arrive in two years but nothing has come so far."

>He also pointed out that HAL would have acquired advanced manufacturing capabilities to become self-reliant in producing modern fighter jets with the transfer of technology clause in the old deal, had this government not replaced it with Anil Ambani's firm.

Basically, because of concentration of production powers inside a country, it would be difficult to steal so much money, should the HAL option be chosen. So they went for "cheaper" options and then ramped up the price for corporation profits.

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/national/rafale-deal-is-the-biggest-defence-scam-ever-shourie-yashwant/article24634309.ece

>Quoting a February 16, 2017 press release by French manufacturer Dassault Aviation and Reliance Defence, and a financial press release statement of Dassault for 2016, Bhushan, Shourie and Sinha said the total price of 36 aircraft is about ₹60,000 crore, which works out to be ₹1,660 crore per plane.

>“This is more than double the price of the aircraft under the original 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) and almost ₹1,000 crore higher per aircraft than the price furnished by the government itself, to Parliament on November 18, 2016,” they said in a joint press statement.

And there you have it - no domestic plane production, no technologies, no money savings, no nothing. Only planes, spare parts and maintenance dependencies for 1.3 billion nation. Typical business for NATO-controlled colonial system.
>> No. 118531 ID: 0c2d81
File 153401701633.png - (311.85KB , 602x339 , main-qimg-f049d8e14c149dd76bee81c03f6d83bc.png )
118531
>>118501
None of which is possible with the T-72 series.

>>118529
>france did something bad, this means russia is actually good at technology and is not somalia!

Oh honey.
>> No. 118555 ID: 278cbe
>>118531
>None of which is possible with the T-72 series
Of course it is possible, what the fuck are you even thinking of. It's just nobody bothers to spend money on that.
>> No. 118560 ID: 41441c
File 153495419170.png - (541.91KB , 900x506 , 5b7bec6cdda4c8f77f8b45d7.png )
118560
Kalashnikov Concern has imported the best Ugandan scientists and robot creators! Truly the west quakes in fear!
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/russia-unveils-menacing-45-tonne-13116054?g

>Russia has unveiled a terrifying 4.5-tonne bulletproof robot that can walk and hold weapons in its giant claws - and looks straight out of sci-fi films like Avatar and Robocop.

>The Avatar-style 'bot was revealed by Kalashnikov at the Army 2018 Fair just outside Moscow, as a 'demonstration of what is to come.'

>The robot can walk and has space in a cabin for people to sit and operate the robot from inside and can hold and move objects with its claws, including weapons.

>The pilots are protected from bullets, debris and any other dangerous object behind the armoured glass and metal encasement.

>The gold robot, which has been called Igorek, is still under construction and the creators do not wish to reveal all its characteristics until they have finished.

>>118555
No, you can't. Ammunition stowage for the D-81TM gun on the T-64/72/80/90 series is in a vertical circular carousel inside the crew compartment that is attached to the turret and gun mechanism. Even on the newer T-90MS, the new welded "western" turret just adds extra reserve stowage in the bustle rack and it needs to be transferred into the ammo carousel by hand. On the M1, LeClerc, Challenger 2, Leo 2, K2, ZTZ-99A, etc, ammunition is stored in the rear of the turret in a sealed compartment with a armored door opened by a elbow switch or the autoloader, amd a small number of reserve rounds stored in armored boxes in the turret floor.

Any War Thunder/World of Tanks player would be able to tell you this.
>> No. 118562 ID: 278cbe
File 153510659636.jpg - (110.47KB , 800x450 , 4OXzxuEu.jpg )
118562
>>118560
They've been doing some weird stuff recently, those guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR6K6hARevo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du7RHx2LLRc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zC6om5aJFs

>Ammunition stowage for the D-81TM gun on the T-64/72/80/90 series is in a vertical circular carousel inside the crew compartment that is attached to the turret and gun mechanism.
Well then you just replace the whole assembly from factory, hit it with the hammer a couple of times and fit everything back together. It is normal, after all, to count enemy's losses by projections and your losses by irretrievable materiel, so you can keep stacking up numbers like 20:1 or 100:2.

The tank isn't busted as long as it is not ripped open, and of course, any repairs for soviet tank will be cheaper than repairing western tanks. You know, if you need to keep telling everyone that your mighty forces are invincible, invulnerable and absolutely rightful, only large sums of money will save your reputation for you.
>> No. 118600 ID: 41441c
File 153608723654.jpg - (36.03KB , 1200x673 , DmL_1ziXcAQ4uC6.jpg )
118600
This just in: the engine fell out of your car because somebody on the assembly line fucked up, but the carmaker says it's your fault and you sabotaged your car.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/satellites/a22984603/air-leak-iss-drilled-russia/
>> No. 118604 ID: 6e9258
>>118600
>Looking at a photo of the hole, it looks less like a puncture caused by a small meteorite and more like a hole that was purposefully drilled. That's not just a layman's observation either. Dmitry Rogozin, the Director General of Russia’s space agency Roscosmos, suspects that the drilling was done with the intention of causing a leak. “There were several attempts at drilling,” he said in televised comments, by a “wavering hand.”

>Those tests are currently underway, but it’s also possible an employee or contractor drilled that hole either accidentally or deliberately. In this case, the person could have sealed the hole somehow, where it remained hidden for weeks until the vacuum of space caused the sealant to dry up and break apart.

So, somebody's shaky hands, not quite used to handling the drill or drilling in weightlessness, are responsible.

>the engine fell out of your car
As it turns out, spaceship is not your consumer car, and there's no engine to fall out of it. Final assembly of the spacecraft, and especially testing and training stages, do not involve and can not involve any drilling operations.

http://tass.com/science/1020165
>Hole in Soyuz MS-09’s hull was drilled when it was fully assembled, says industry source
>> No. 118605 ID: 42b35f
>>118600
>>118604
tbh that looks like someone drilled the hole, by hand, without a center punch or any pilot at all.
No matter how steady your hands are, and how well you're braced, without a pilot of some sort your drill will walk all over just like that. Don't matter if it's on Da Erf or in microgravity.
>> No. 118622 ID: c10b88
>>118562

>The tank isn't busted as long as it is not ripped open

Which a T-64/72/80/90 will be, because the ammo stowage is of such a hilariously bad design.

The difference is a western MBT will actually have a chance to be repaired, because a single center-mass penetration isn't likely to blow the entire turret off the tank like it is with the ridiculous autoloader carousel arrangement.

But hey, anything to save a little bit of silhouette in an era where thermal imaging can see a stationary, partially covered tank clearly at several kilometers, right? Who needs crew survivability.
>> No. 118627 ID: 77e541
Tanks are a worthless sack of bullcrap to be wasting money on in the 21st century. They look good in parades and their production justifies a lot of bribe money paid to politicians, but when push comes to shove they're a liability. Everyone here has heard all about Billy Mitchell vs The Black Shoe Navy. None of the battleships the traditional old fogeys insisted on producing did a single thing in combat other than huddling near the aircraft carrier and justifying a tiny percentage of it's cost by providing some extra floating ack-ack. At the onset of the war America had 4 aircraft carriers available for combat because of those shortsighted, headstrong, greedy retards. Nobody remembers their names, but everyone knows about Billy Mitchell. Most of the allied nations were hamstrung at the onset of the war because they were letting the braindead bros of the ruling class' good ol boys club run their militaries for private profit and prestige rather than running it professionally for performance, the Russians did the Poles a huge favor when they wiped out that class of worthless blowhards because those were they same people who had failed to prepare any significant effective military defense for the people of their country even though they'd had a decade to prepare.
Its been since forever that yesterday's weapon was a gamechanger in today's war. Tanks were trumped by JaBos in the 1940s, by another thinking man's general, Patton, that was almost 75 years ago, chronologically closer to the Franco-Prussian war than the present.
>> No. 118637 ID: 6e9258
File 153673398474.jpg - (106.97KB , 960x720 , 5630011_original.jpg )
118637
https://scout-thedeaddistrict.blogspot.com/2018/06/90-m1a1m-abrams.html

>Iraqi Army T-90С and M1A1M Abrams - a pretty interesting photo that was posted on twitter, Iraq, @KKKAMASH2. The photo of the Iraqi Army T-90С and M1A1M Abrams is laid out in one photo. Presumably, the photograph was shot at the 35th Brigade of the 9th Division of the Iraqi Army.

https://scout-thedeaddistrict.blogspot.com/2018/02/90-m1a1m.html

>As the Iraqi newspaper Al Ghad Press reported on January 28, 2018, the American General Dynamics corporation ceased the program of technical and service support of the M1A1M Abrams tank of the Iraqi army at its technical base at Al Matan airport in Baghdad from the end of 2017. This was in response to Iraq's revealed violations of the contractual agreement on the receipt of these tanks, expressed primarily in the transfer of at least two Abrams tanks from the Iraqi army to the pro-Iranian Shiite militia "Khashd al-Shaabi" ("People's Mobilization Force"). It is reported that General Dynamics has previously repeatedly informed the Iraqi government of the inadmissible from its point of view the transfer of Abrams tanks to armed groups that are not part of the Iraqi army.

>According to the newspaper, during the fighting against the "Islamic State" in Mosul, 60 Abrams tanks of the Iraqi army were disabled, which now need to be restored, which was what General Dynamics did at the technical base in Al Matanah [it is unclear whether this number irrevocably lost tanks].


Delete post []
Password  
Report post
Reason