As decreed by the ancient profits of Threadology - welcome to the Acid Man explosives thread!
Some of this will be interesting, some of it will be boring, and some of it will be downright dangerous. Whichever you like best, all students in the Chemistry Class are required to
Explosives. Surely if there is a contention issue concerning possession by we mere "civilians" it is this. Nevermind that most of the great chemistry breakthroughs accomplished in this art over the centuries have been made by nerdy, unlicensed, obsessive men working in their kitchens and not in the great corporate laboratories of the world. Its amazing how the people will create something, and then the government has the right to claim it as their own domain and seize it from the populace. "For their own good", of course.
But I digress. All political opinions aside, explosives are not unlawful to play with provided one abides by the requirements of the law. The first thing we are going to discuss is legality.
>The absolute purpose of this thread is to be informative and educational, for the benefit of this community. NOTHING, and I can not emphasize this enough, that is presented in this thread is intended to be applied by any person or organization, including the author, in any manner which would be inconsistent with any local, state, or federal law under any circumstances. I ask and encourage the mods to keep a close watch on this thread and remove any content that violates this disclaimer, no matter who posts it.
The first thing to know when it concerns explosives law, is that you need a license to really get into the art. A Federal Explosives License is actually very easy to get! I know some of our community are HAM radio OPERATORs, and the difficulty of the requirement is actually very comparable. Let us look at the paperwork:
>The application for an ATF Explosives License:
>Pertinent regulations and rules:
As you can see, the license to manufacture explosives costs a whopping $200. Chickenfeed compared to the trouble you'll be in for messing with this stuff much without one. If you only want to play around with explosives you purchase from other manufacturers, the "Limited Permit" classification is only $25! The paperwork is not difficult and only takes a few minutes to fill out and submit. You'll have ATF inspectors check out your location and give you a quick interview, and they'll give you a copy of the Regulations book and send you on your merry way. Easy peezy - so don't fuck it up! If you intend to store explosives for any length of time you will need a qualified magazine. These can be purchased for big bucks, or you can make one out of sand, cinderblocks, an old wall safe, and concrete in a safe outdoor location. It doesn't have to be big - I know a guy who built one for $250 that's only 1'x2'x10" deep - plenty big for an experimenter. The requirements are covered in the regulations - it has to be a certain size with a certain wall thickness and multiple locks, and be placed a safe distance from inhabitable buildings.
With the legal stuff outlined, lets take a look at the very basic chemistry that goes in in an explosive.
>What is an explosive?
>What are "High" and "Low" explosives?
>What is "detonation" as opposed to "deflagration"?
>What does "high order" mean?
>What are "confinement" and "critical diameter" and what role do they play?
>What kinds of chemical reactions (nitration, oxidation, reduction) make explosives?
>What chemicals are required to make these reactions?
>What are the general types of explosives (primary, secondary, booster, bulk) and what are they used for?
Welcome to the Acid Man Explosives Thread. Buckle your seatbelts, because V-Tech is about to kick in, yo!
Rather than the 50% ammonium hydroxide solution, nitromethane can also be sensitized by addition of either organic amines (possibly even hexamine, though I can't confirm this yet) or also these little guys.
As specified in this patent and others:
The tl;dr is that the glass microspheres "crush" under the force of the initial blasting cap shockwave and function like microscopic shaped charges which amplify the explosive effect and help the shock propagate. They're going to reduce density somewhat, but you only need about 2-5% by weight of microspheres.
This would also have the advantage of eliminating the residual water that may be giving your formula some problems.
So... you call yourself Acid Man for a *reason.*
/capped for posterity
No way we're losing this one. Bumpage!
In all seriousness why is this not either archived or pinned?
I use this thread for research material.
I PDF'D this thread three times already per update of course
I'd like to request an FAE thread. That'd be very interesting.
Hi Acid Man I have a couple of questions first can you teach me about hydrazine please? Second from what you've written a lot of these chemicals will explode just because the day ends in a "Y" has anything like that happened to you?
I'm a little late to the party. Who has the files Acid uploaded to /z/ (the explosives and explosives-related thread I'd imagine was where they were) referenced in this thread? Or a backup of the entire thread on /z/ would be cool.
Also what about that shaped charge thread?
bump 8chn /k/ here. good shit. learning alot
can anyone repost the dead .pdfs?
HOLY FUCK! electrical engineer here. my mind is exploding. its so simple yet makes so much sense
damnit acid man, I'd have loved to have read a thread of yours about biological / chemical weapons.
I wish we could have that thread, but without the whole .... you gunna get vanned thing.
Acid, you ever pop on IRC anymore? I was shooting the shit with some grunts from our local combat engineer unit (potentially joining them in a year), had some interesting discussions regarding IEDs. My experience was from employing them as OPFOR/trying not to get blown up by OPFOR - theirs was "disarming" them with det cord or other explosives, but the actual explosives and detonators were essentially a mystery to us. Wanted to pick your brain about some things.
I VERY rarely get on IRC, but if you want to meet up and chat then sure.
Yeah, that'd be awesome, I'm EST but free monday anyways, let me know when you're likely to be on, I'll keep the client idling.
Late evenings mostly.
Cool, I take it you're more likely on the 8chan irc eh?
No, only /k/ normally.
Thank god, I thought you were vanned. "Mind explaining all these books on explosives, insurgency and all this Rustle art work?"
I'm starting a Militia EOD unit composed entirely of cute lolis?
Anime of that when?
Nah, but I've been incredibly busy lately. Work has been brutal, and I ended up becoming the HMFIC of 8chan's main GamerGate hub, the third biggest board on the site. On top of that #GG has had nearly non-stop happenings since, so that eats a ton of time and energy.
Also I'm leaving my job to take up a slot as a regional manager for a large chain of gun stores in May. Its 40 hours a week instead of 60+, for the same take-home pay, and I get full benefits and a 20% commission, plus a company car for business trips! Getting prepped for that eats a lot of my time too.
Fantastic! That's good to hear, you were busting your ass for little pay and no appreciation. It's nice to see something working out.
Also, I'm so on board for a cute loli EOD unit. That'd make an awesome anime.
I'd likely watch it.
I also would watch that anime.
Also, congrats on the new job.
Aye, gratz on the better job man, I'm glad to hear you're going to be fucked with less.
I just had some questions about cheddite since something like it came up in a discussion I was having with some combat engineers up here (Canada). I had ideas on how it could be used by opfor/infantry as a field expediant explosive, wanted to know more about how fragile/sensitive it is and how hard it would be to set off... Also what it looked like and potential ways of defeating it. I blew up and was blown up by notional-ieds(aka co2 and talc powder) more than I cared for when I was in, and shit like this intrigues me, especially if it can be used to help educate grunts.
I'd be happy to answer but you've never been in IRC when I popped in, lol.
I know a bit about Cheddite. Fun stuff with a ton of history to it.
Yeah I got fucking destroyed by work myself, 6 day weeks from now until....sometime in the summer, when jobs start getting finished or we finally hire more people. Glad I booked this weekend for a cottage trip...so I also wont be around. I'll try and be on late all next week.
What is your take on TM 31-210 ?
Is it a viable source book, and the information therein as safe (when made according to procedure) as the authors claim?
Reviews would be greatly appreciated
I have it for casual reading. It is useful for getting the general synthesis down, but I would never use it. It's way too inaccurate to trust. Measuring solids out by volume. 'nuff said.
Hate to ask my question so late, but let's say I actually could get some hydrazine.
How exactly would you convert it to sodium azide?
Also, unrelated, but I've heard that Lead Azide is actually very sensitive to physical shocks that also generate friction (eg, leave it went on a tightly wound piece of string, and by the time it's done drying, pulling the string could set off the azide.) Is this true?
Hydrazine Sulfate isn't too hard to make. There have been several topics on Science madness on it. The main problem is the low yield. Converting the Hydrazine Sulfate to Hydrazine hydrate (and purifying it) is a bit more difficult and requires a silver flask if i recall Correctly.
I second this, just for the science behind it. Conversion of Hydrazine hydrate to Sodium Azide.
Hey Acid Man, I'm assuming you already know, but you can order the acetic anhydride from S-A in useful amounts, even by the kg, for relatively cheap (Under $100 a kg, which for RDX I'd say is pretty good), or is there a reason you can't go that route even with an explosives license?
>, acetic anhydride is listed as a U.S. DEA List II precursor,
you gonna get raped.
What do you think about silver acetylide as a primary explosive? Sudden ded like organic peroxides or safer?
Wow, is it really possible for an individual to obtain a license for explosives? Just some swingin' dick who isn't involved with explosives on a professional basis, but just wants to clear tree stumps on his back 40?
I wonder, how bad is the federal anal probing you have to go through? I assume your name gets added to several government lists, but are there any day-to-day effects, like profiling by LEOs or increased chance of IRS audits or some other shit?
yes, if you meet the requirements
I got a good quality scan of this book at my uni library this weekend: http://www.abebooks.com/Propellants-explosives-Chemical-technology-review-James/12123708105/bd
Going to be cleaning it up and putting it online this weekend, it has a lot of detailed processes for actually making explosives.
Here you go:
Note there are some blurry pages I may have to go back and rescan some pages. Good news is most of the info in the book is from patents and includes the patent numbers if you need to look up anything that isn't showing up clearly in the scan.
Can I haz this? plz
You know but don't have, I have but don't know, let me learn.
Great, thanks. This is going to help us a lot. And also, I'm using the modified Griess test to spot the PETN on the field, but I'm using KOH/Ethanol/Acetone solution to doit, but it is very volatile, it's hard to hydrolize the PETN. Is there a way to make this gel like or something in order to prevent this and make a better contact with the area in analsis? Or better yet, Is there another way to hydrolize the PETN on the field with another chemical?
Just to let you know, I'm working on a mining company, and we want to be sure that there are not traces of explosives after spillages or in our equipment when it needs to be repaired. Besides, the company is going to buy an HPLC equipment, so we need to be ready we it arrives. Thanks for the ebay tip.
I've got a program to Hopefully snipe the google books preview, but I don't think it's going to work.
Especially for buying it, for a company, just look around till you find a price you're willing to pay.
Lead(II) Azide synthesis video
My question is how do detonators in artillery/tank and missiles actually work? I can't figure out how the shock from launching these doesn't set them off.
It depends on the fuse and the missile and the application. Look on dtic.mil and fuse technologies. All of them have multiple safety interlocks that can only be released via firing.
Some require rotations to unlock a balls, some require wind speed to unscrew a firing pin, some have timed interlocks (sorta kinda somewhat) and there's some designs that need the g force to activate a mercury switch to activate it so long as the projo is accellerating.
Science....primarily mechanical engineering.
A common WWI and early WWII one is that the firing pin is held forward near the primer by some sort of fixing agent, can't move forward or back
When the shell is fired the inertia makes the pin snap free of the fixing agent and move back into a "cocked" position
Then when the shell hits something, the inertia slams the pin forward to hit the primer
There's many different ways to do it, various locking bolts and safety lugs, germans like ball-bearing safeties for example