I play Star Citizen and have a Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas X. If you want to try out hotas, but aren't sure if you'll like it, this is a great option. I love mine and feel it was definitely worth what I payed. I wouldn't say it made me a better pilot, but I feel it improved my game play experience. My only gripe is the lack of hats for use with gimbals (but I have plans to diy-rectify this).

Another viable alternative though is to try and get two cheap joysticks either online or from second hand/used goods store.

>>57246
I am seeing a lot of stuff on the Elite forums and the elite subreddit (the only one I visit, and that infrequently) saying that for generalist space flight simming, the Thrustmaster T.16000m with either a Saitek throttle quadrant or the CH products throttle is the best route for playability, features, and price. I'm leaning towards the T.16000M and CH throttle myself.

I know Scott Manley uses a Saitek X-52 Pro, and the Rhino vs the Warthog HOTAS says the Warthog is better built. Even on Amazon, the X-55 shows a lot of RMAs in the last 18 months.

Given the budget for an ideal setup, though, with a better control over vertical movement I'd build a helo stick setup. That's insanely expensive though; cheapest build with components of reputable quality I've priced comes in at $2500 US, with ~$500 just for a collective.

The more I think about it, and read about it, the less I know wtf I need to do. :)

CH seems to have some distinct disadvantages to it, although it's pretty legendary.
The X-55 Rhino is being put down for higher failure rates.
The cheaper options are all compromises.
And:

>>57251
>the Rhino vs the Warthog HOTAS says the Warthog is better built.

Better built, yes, but not necessarily ergonomically better from what I've read. You pay a premium for something that copies real life that might not actually translate well to online gameplay.

I have a CH set up, and I find it average. Biggest complaint is the weight, both the springs and the base. There is only enough tension to almost keep the stick and rudders centered. While the pedals are stable on a carpet floor, I have had the stick shift around on my table a few times, and quite a few more for the throttle.

I tried Saitek years ago but didn't like the look or feel. I had a very old Thrustmaster for an old 90s Mac that was great, but I did wear it out. After that, I had a wireless Logitech, which was good except for batteries and it shutting itself off if you don't use a button on it. Otherwise it felt great.

>>57282
>I had a very old Thrustmaster for an old 90s Mac that was great, but I did wear it out.

I had a Sidewinder for a few years & it did pretty great, but eventually it couldn't calibrate anymore & into the trash it went.

Thanks for your feedback.

I will confirm on Saitek. I have an original Saitek keyboard from around 2005. Still going strong.
In 2007 they were bought out by MadCatz and they cheaped out on components. I've tried two keyboards (which they don't even make anymore) and both failed within months.

I'd go with the T.16000M, best cost to performance ratio on the market currently.

And I'd avoid HOTAS, personally. It's more of an immersion enhancer than something that offers any tangible benefit, at least in non-study sims that have super simple engine controls (which is true for pretty much every space sim I've ever played). In E:D I just use the shift and crtl keys on my keyboard and have never had any issues.

Another issue with HOTAS is that space games like E:D and Star Citizen use a form a movement that not only uses conventional manuevers, but also up/down/strafe movement. This is pretty hard to do with your free hand stuck to a throttle, unless that throttle has some kind of analog stick on it. Much easier to just make your strafe keys to WASD and use shift/crtl for throttle, though.

CH lacks twist, feels cheap-ish, might be too light in resistance and has been deteriorating in quality over the years.
Saitek seems to be a QC disaster, thus killing the X-52 and X-55.
Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog is probably way beyond what I'd need. The price is very questionable.

So that leaves:
- Thrustmaster T.16000M: Supposedly the better choice as far as the movement is concerned, but the overall design seems pretty meh & the throttle is lackluster at best.
- Logitech Extreme 3D Pro: Decent, with slightly better throttle I'd think, but overall not very convincing?
- Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas X: Only one with a real throttle. Not pretty, but seems like the sensible choice?

>>57287
>Another issue with HOTAS is that space games like E:D and Star Citizen use a form a movement that not only uses conventional manuevers, but also up/down/strafe movement. This is pretty hard to do with your free hand stuck to a throttle, unless that throttle has some kind of analog stick on it.

Even the cheapo Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas X has the necessary keys on back of the throttle to add an additional vector.
I guess most throttles do?

I get what your saying though, a hat button on the throttle would be more suited.

>>57288

In my experience I would avoid the 3D Pro like the plague. I've seen tons of people give it positive reviews but I just could not enjoy mine, and eventually I caved and bought a T.16000M which just feels 1000x more smooth and precise.

>>57289

If you're comfortable using buttons to control strafe movements then that's fine, but personally I find the WASD on my keyboard much more intuitive, only because I (as well as most gamers, I would imagine) have developed the muscle memory to use WASD for movements without really even having to think about it in the heat of the moment. Unless the buttons are the same position/width apart/pressure to push down/etc, there could be some teething issues.

>>57288
If you're dead set on an integrated throttle, the Thrustmaster HOTAS X is one of the preferred products on a budget for both Elite and Star Citizen.

Like I said, though, most people are suggesting T.16000M and the CH standalone USB throttle. Yeah, the CH throttle costs a lot more than the T.16000, but it gives you better control over mapping of craft movement on the yaw or strafe profiles with the 4 hatswitches and front side buttons.
http://www.simw.com/hardware/throttle-quadrant/ch-pro-throttle-usb.html

The main downside is that it's light for a standalone throttle, so I've read, and that it's a slider, it pushes forward and backward in the movement slot rather than pivoting forward and back over a fixed point. makes it tricky to move without fixing it in place somehow.

There's also this if you want to get an all-in-one:
http://www.simw.com/hardware/stick-throttle/pacific-av8r-flightstick-pc.html

I had a Thrustmaster HOTAS setup circa '08 for about a week.

Overall, I was not impressed.

Weight was good. It felt like a good stick, had a fair amount of mass to it. It felt substantial and durable. However, something like 1/8 of the controls were broken to some degree. Research online at the time showed that enthusiasts were essentially saying "Yeah, buy one if you want to replace all the guts." I ended up sending it back and going with a $45 cheapass joystick that was a much, MUCH better value for the price.

Given that it was almost 8 years ago, maybe Thrustmaster has gotten their shit together in the meantime, but I'd suggest a bit of research to be sure.

Personally, I'm in the market for a good controller setup but haven't really started digging too deep yet. It's mostly going to be for Star Citizen / ED, but I'm thinking the way to go is 3-axis joystick, throttle, and then 2-axis pedals. Pedals are planar movement up/down & L/R, throttle is forward/retro thrust and a shit-ton of systems management buttons, and then the joystick is targetting/fire control/rotational movement. The CH throttle looks pretty hot for the thumb joystick and button layout, the pedals look...well...adequate, I guess, but the joystick is a total nonstarter on that front.

Honestly, I'm sort of surprised that the pickings are as slim as they are. Figured there'd be some pretty clear suites out there for just this sort of thing.

One other thing to keep in mind about going the joystick or HOTAS route for E:D or Star Citizen, is that both these games really control better with a mouse and keyboard, especially for targeting with non-gimballed weapons.

I alternate playing E:D with my T.16000M and mouse and I usually end up greatly preferring the mouse for everything except the immersion factor. Flight sims are one thing (can't even imagine trying to do DCS with a mouse, if it were even technically possible in the first place), but space games usually have a substantial amount of flight assistance that makes a mouse the preferred for precision targeting.

That's not to say that a stick is noncompetitive or anything, but it's definitely got a higher skill floor and a lower ceiling than the mouse, at least in E:D. Star Citizen's a bit harder to tell because the combat goes through so many revisions with such rapidity, but it's shaping up to be a similar deal.

>>57246
I went down the full tilt path...

I have Saitek combat pedals as well.
http://store.madcatz.com/brands/saitek/Saitek-PRO-Flight-Combat-Rudder-Pedals.html

All should be good though. Unless you have dollars to blow on potential paper weights, go with a budgeted choice.

As a player of SC, I can tell you this now. You will need a full hotas setup to not get full raped.

There are simply too many controls for any single stick setup to manage your ship adequately.

I would recommend the Saitek X-55 or even the 52 for budget reasons.

>>57341
so jelly. wish i had enough desk space for that thing, and the spare dosh. Would love to get one for IL-2 and Rise of Flight.